Immersion, The Facts & Fiction

[Lyndis]

I'm sorry I'm going to use a second post to address the second section of your argument.

Yes, fantasy is not real. And trying to argue otherwise is quite silly. I mean even in a game like the sims, it's hard to say "This is just like real life." I think we all understand this though, another reason why this thread is so completely pointless. We know what fantasy means. Now I think you need to be reminded a few somethings about the fantasy genre.

Fantasy may not be the same as our reality, but there are a lot of similarities. Why? Because nothing can be created that isn't already created. We combine truths from our realities to make fake realities. Like putting a horn (horns do exist we did not create the concept or horns and it is not a 'fantasy' term) and putting it on a horse (also not a part of fantasy) and all of a sudden we have a unicorn. We consider a Unicorn 'Fantasy' though it is made up of very real ideas that are not even close to unique. Even 'magic' comes from the simple idea of an unexplained event. There is still magic in this world despite our incredible knowledge of the universe. It is simply things we don't understand. So a fantasy world takes that concept and tries to make unexplained occurrences happen more often. This is basic philosophy to say that humans can not create something that doesn't exist, which is only argument number one that fantasy is very closely related to reality.

Second of all, something that should be extremely obvious but it seems overlooked. You act like due to their definitions fantasy and realism have nothing in common (which is literally impossible due to the above argument). But now lets try to imagine a world where they at least have the fewest things in common. Are you imagining a world like Final Fantasy? Then you're probably doing it wrong. By your definition Fantasy shouldn't be ingrained in realism so that means things like physics shouldn't exist, we can now float and walk upside down at will, but we are not sure what up and down are anyways. Dirt shouldn't be brown. People shouldn't wear clothes and they should all have arms sprouting out their heads. Airships don't actually fly they just appear at their location, even when someone boarded the same airship as you it is possible for you to arrive at different times. Stats wouldn't be coherent because nothing is constant. I could go on... My point is that a world like this may be exciting and interesting for a little bit, but it doesn't hold our attention. Things HAVE to make sense even in a fantasy world. Some of the best MAGIC systems (something that doesn't exist as it does in a fantasy world) have roots and reasons that actually make sense, utilizing things like physics or famous past philosophies were easy to believe (Like Aristotle's elements that made up the world).

So quit saying that Fantasy can't have anything in common with the real world. Because that's insane and doesn't make any sense.

[Crica]

This is OT, but I wanted to respond to your signature, Lyndis...

{{{You don't need a reason to help someone}}}

Well... it depends on what they need help with...

Would you need a reason to help me steal your friend's car?

^_^;

[Finuve]

This is OT, but I wanted to respond to your signature, Lyndis...

{{{You don't need a reason to help someone}}}

Well... it depends on what they need help with...

Would you need a reason to help me steal your friend's car?

^_^;

leaving the quote in its FF9 context it will always mean helping someone in need in a positive moral way

[Crica]

leaving the quote in its FF9 context it will always mean helping someone in need in a positive moral way

Therein lies the reason - the reason to help is because it is morally positive to do so - thereby annulling the statement.

Sorry, back to the topic.

[Finuve]

Therein lies the reason - the reason to help is because it is morally positive to do so - thereby annulling the statement.

Sorry, back to the topic.

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

and I'm pretty sure any reason to stay on topic in this thread is long since gone, people clamoring for immersion want to inconvenience other people, people who don't want this want to ruin immersion fans fun

if this conversation is to continue it needs to move into a discussion that promotes both fun and immersion, could start by fixing the teleport animations

[Crica]

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

They want you to help them steal the car, they do not want you to help them get a job.

[Finuve]

They want you to help them steal the car, they do not want you to help them get a job.

I'm sure you understand the point but are just trying to counterpoint

Helping someone steal a car isnt helping at all, even if they perceive it as such, helping someone would be pushing them back onto a moral path (lets not drag this too far into long annoying instances of grey areas though) or helping someone in need, food water health training etc

[Konachibi]

if someone wants to steal a car, you would help them by talking them out of it, and maybe helping them get a job

and I'm pretty sure any reason to stay on topic in this thread is long since gone, people clamoring for immersion want to inconvenience other people, people who don't want this want to ruin immersion fans fun

if this conversation is to continue it needs to move into a discussion that promotes both fun and immersion, could start by fixing the teleport animations

Speechless...

Really, I am.

Awesome! (b'.')b

I say we go with this idea, instead of going at each others throats about what immersion is and isn't, we discuss things that could improve our ability to become immersed in the game and it's many bits'n'pieces.

Teleport animations defenitely, especially if it means my frame-rate doesn't drop from 30 to 3 everytime someone uses it.

Someway for clothes to change without the character dissapearing, though to be honest the only other possible options I can think of is either to make huge animations that show the character physically changing their clothes which would take too long and spend too much time developing for something that's not really that important, or to make the characters clothes change without the character dissapearing, like *popping* clothes. Though that'd probably be a bit daft. But then that's the system other mmo's use. I guess in a way I kinda do prefer the character dissapearing :3

Does kinda get annoying when you're swapping loads of gear though and it takes ages 'cos your character keeps popping on and off the screen.