Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Teiren]

? Now that WAR has Equilibrium, and if you count DRK's new Blood Weapon, every TP-consuming Job now has at least 1 TP management CD except PLD. Combo to infinite?

What's the point of having TP if all jobs could bash attack indefinitely? But by that logic PLD can't even have bread crumbs because the rest aren't pleased with their 4-course meal

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply Paladin should NOT have a TP boost action. I just meant that they'll always run out of TP eventually like DRK and other DoW but unlike WAR because that's the design goal, so we shouldn't ask for something like never running out of TP because that'll just be ignored. DRK still runs out of TP eventually, though it takes a long time like the other Disciples of War except Paladin. So I agree with the idea of what IS the point of TP. There's no such thing as TP management. It's simply clear that they don't want TP classes to go on forever with 100% uptime. Heavensward just gets around the TP system by often forcing sub-100% uptime, unlike many fights in ARR.

Anyway, as long as they keep TP how it is, I do think Paladin should basically have Blood Weapon's effect built into Fight or Flight because, yes, they do run out of TP a lot sooner than the other DoW, and that is completely stupid when its DPS is already lowest. Or having a spell instead like this post suggests, http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-can-agree-on would help just as much as Blood Weapon/Equilibrium.

[rawker]

snip

Sure... If I only burn my entire TP load spamming Rage of Halone combo as MT, like ARR, I wouldn't worry DPS or Healers to catch up on threat. But since PLDs are now given weapon skills that does not have increased enmity slapped into them, we, at the very least, be given the resources to actually use it without worrying that we will run out of TP for our enmity combo.

[Teiren]

Sure... If I only burn my entire TP load spamming Rage of Halone combo as MT, like ARR, I wouldn't worry DPS or Healers to catch up on threat. But since PLDs are now given weapon skills that does not have increased enmity slapped into them, we, at the very least, be given the resources to actually use it without worrying that we will run out of TP for our enmity combo.

Er sorry, maybe I was being confusing? Rage of Halone combo is just as much TP as the other combos, and I agree with you. I meant to say that I disagree completely with the current TP design for all Jobs and that it hurts Paladin the most because of no TP Regeneration/Reduction action.

There's no real TP management outside of limiting AoE. TP is simply: Use until empty, then have your DPS cut in half or worse. However, for a situation like Ravana Extreme where you know you absolutely do not want to run out of TP during Scorpion Avatar, that's different. That is an interesting choice to save TP if you're low, but situations like that are the exception by far. I would certainly like to see a lot more fights like Ravana.

No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.

If you never drop Grit, that's true, but with Blood Weapon if you're using TP 10% more often while using 20% less TP, is that not a net gain? Maybe I'm missing something.

[rawker]

Er sorry, maybe I was being confusing? Rage of Halone combo is just as much TP as the other combos, and I agree with you. I meant to say that I disagree completely with the current TP design for all Jobs and that it hurts Paladin the most because of no TP Regeneration/Reduction action.

There's no real TP management outside of limiting AoE. TP is simply: Use until empty, then have your DPS cut in half or worse. However, for a situation like Ravana Extreme where you know you absolutely do not want to run out of TP during Scorpion Avatar, that's different. That is an interesting choice to save TP if you're low, but situations like that are the exception by far. I would certainly like to see a lot more fights like Ravana.

No. Not confusing at all. If we will factor in the amount of threat generated per TP will be lower by a great amount if we use nothing but Halone Combo versus maximizing our DPS in which the other 2 tanks is a non-issue. To that we both agree.

I just can't understand why WAR and DRK have multiple AoEs that generate extra enmity while PLDs can't have that perk. WARs can even cross Flash if ever they run out of TP(some people do) so it's easier to face pull trash.

[Theodric]

Flash doing AoE damage would help quite a bit. It'll be interesting to see what sort of adjustments are made to ensure that our damage is more in line with WAR and DRK.

[Teiren]

No. Not confusing at all. If we will factor in the amount of threat generated per TP will be lower by a great amount if we use nothing but Halone Combo versus maximizing our DPS in which the other 2 tanks is a non-issue. To that we both agree.

I just can't understand why WAR and DRK have multiple AoEs that generate extra enmity while PLDs can't have that perk. WARs can even cross Flash if ever they run out of TP(some people do) so it's easier to face pull trash.

Oh, spend more TP to get the same enmity as well as not being able to focus on non-enmity combos as much as DRK. Duh, I wasn't thinking, haha. Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x), that certainly is a problem.

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower? To be fair, Overpower probably should do a little more enmity because of the huge TP cost. Then again, maybe WAR having no TP problems outside of AoE enmity generation as well as being able to use Flash balances that already?


Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

[Duelle]

Btw, there is literally a "Rallying Cry" ability in the game already: http://xivdb.com/?skill/1561/Thrill-of-War
Honestly, a lot of the PVP actions could have been put to good use and retooled as the new job actions in Heavensward, but I can understand why they're wary of enabling them in PVE even in an altered form. I really, really hope that for the next expansion they remove cross-class actions (the whole system is a total failure once you promote to a Job anyway) and replace them with some form of the PVP actions. I thought they'd do that for this expansion, but oh well.

Heh now that's what I call a wasted ability.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah, assuming all enmity multipliers on Rage of Halone/Power Slash/Butcher's Block are the same (and I'm assuming they are: 5x)...

Is there testing that someone has posted somewhere to prove that Flash is less enmity than Unleash or Overpower?

At current, I believe RoH lags behind the others in enmity multiplier (5x compared to the other two's 5.5x). The excuse for this was that the 2nd step of the enmity combo is used in one of PLD's 2 dps combos, RA, while the other two tanks' non-enmity combos have no enmity component whatsoever, but even Savage Blade similarly has .5x less en-mod than Spinning Slash and Skull Sunder, iirc, severely nerfing it in any content of pure enmity. Personally I'd like to see SB increased to 3.75x (compared to its equivalents' 3.5x) and RoH potency increased to 270 or 280 but enmity mod increased to only to 5.25x (compared to 5.5x), or whatever puts their combined ePot in line with BB and PS combo. If that puts PLD too far ahead in average effective potency over 3 combos or 21 to 24 seconds, however, then maybe even leave SB low, but definitely increase RoH's enmity mod further; they shouldn't have to suffer in burst enmity (comparing without CDs) just because their average enmity is higher -- as long as they're not pulling off the MT when in Sword Oath, that's fine and largely fitting for a PLD.

Flash has basically the same base enmity as Unleash and Overpower. The problem is that it doesn't scale with offensive CDs, while the others do, and cannot crit. As such, while a Warrior with Maim or Dark Knight with Darkside up can tank for 3 equally-geared (to the WAR) Monks each on a different target by simply spamming Overpower or Unleash, a Paladin spamming Flash wouldn't be able to do the same, even with FoF up.

[Habien]

DRK still runs out of TP eventually, though it takes a long time like the other Disciples of War except Paladin.

No, DRK runs out just as fast as paladin. The buff to blood weapon was to ensure they didn't run out faster than PLD when using it due to the attack speed buff. DRK and PLD are in the same spot in regards to tp issues.