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  1. #1
    Player
    Sapphidia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    405
    Character
    Sapphidia Wulfhaven
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    I actually prefer Sheltron as a guaranteed block because of its interaction with Shield Swipe - it lets you force a block, and thus guarantees a shield swipe is available to use on demand. That's good synergy.

    The problem is Shield Swipe is poop. I really don't feel Paladin needs ANY major mechanical changes or functionality changes, it just needs some numbers tweaking, and I think Shield Swipe is the place to do it. Hugely buffing Shield Swipe's threat and potency (maybe from 210/x3 to 260/x5 so it becomes more like a Halone than a Savage) would solve a lot of PLD issues, and if Shield Swipe DOES get a buff then Sheltron will be more important.

    I do agree clemency and divine veil are situational but the concept is okay. I think Divine Veil is fine but just gets a bad rap because the class as a whole is fairly misfunctional. If Paladins did competitive dps/threat then noone would mind that Divine Veil, Cover and Clemency were only occasional uses. Admittedly I wouldnt say no to something like Shield Oath coming with a perma-Surecast effect though so we can cast clemency and stoneskin without interruption, and a radius increase on Divine Veil, but the functionality is fine.

    But in general, I think the paladin class is fine in terms of -what- each skill does and how they work, it's just the numbers are off. Shield Swipe is the major offender because that button is literally a DPS -and- threat loss to press at any time, it purely "saves tp" whilst lowering output. It -needs- a boost.
    (3)
    Last edited by Sapphidia; 10-10-2015 at 05:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    ArdorGrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    179
    Character
    Ardor Grey
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphidia View Post
    snip
    I agree Sheltron is awesome in theory and that it fails because shield swipe is terrible. Outside of a raw potency/aggro buff I could also see some sort of debuff becoming tied to it instead of raw potency buffs. Whatever they do, shield swipes should be something that a player is *excited* to see proc, not something you just remove from your bar.

    Divine veil is a real gray area, somewhat in line with your thoughts I just don't feel like I can comment on how good or bad it is atm. As both a dedicated tank and a dedicated teambuilding theorycrafter, the skills just seems way too situational to be utilized in serious content unless the pld itself and their healers have intimate knowledge of how healers handle a specific encounter. But I wholeheartedly agree with people who say clemency needs a reduction in cast time. The prohibitive mp cost on a class that doesn't do much with mp is fine, especially with Shelltron and riot blade restoring mp. The problem with the skill is not only is the actual cast time so long that casters can beat you to the punch, and that it's too slow to react to emergency heals(the only heals where a healer should need help) but also that with a 3 second cast time it not only costs a low dps class in a high dps meta a full gcd, it also clips into their second gcd. No matter how you slice it that isn't situational design, that's bad design. does it need to be an instant cast? no. does the entire class need a radical overhaul? No, and I can't believe anyone who thinks so has actual savage experience themselves- or at least not savage experience that they have condisered in a level headed manner.

    You also don't specifically mention it here but I agree with your past sentiments that shield oath is far too punishing in the games current setup. warrior is the most comfortable tank in dps stance and can use unchained to ignore tank stance penalties for short periods of time. Dark knight is built to use darkness full time. It isn't a bonus, it's a mandatory aspect of learning the class, so effectively their tank stance penalty is far less than either other tank. compile this with also having slightly subpar dps out of shield oath and using tank stance at all is far more punishing on pld than either other tank.

    I can certainly see how someone new to savage and still learning it did poorly on paladin, and then switched to a more favorable class which, combined with a better mastery of the content contributed to them thinking "wow! paladin literally can't do anything and needs a complete rebuild!"

    Fixing a few very problematic skills will do wonders for the class, it still has a lot of stupidly potent defensive options available that can be used to mitigate massive busters comfortably or to assuage healer stress while pushing dps stance depending on how comfortable the player and their healer are. people who think the class needs a massive overhaul to be remotely overhaul have completely tunnelvisioned on their favorite class and lost perspective, much the loldrgs of old dying to aoes during animation locks.

    Anyhoo, your posts are always intelligently elaborated on and refreshingly free of melodrama, I apologize if I extrapolated on a few points to address massive issues with other posters skewed perceptions. (seriously though, clemency needs reworking)
    (1)
    Last edited by ArdorGrey; 10-10-2015 at 07:26 AM.