More Horizontal Progression please

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Really? Even that I don't see...with all the people in Mor Dhona/Idyllshire constantly talking, and with how small the game world is, I run into people all the time. Meanwhile when I played WoW I would never run into anybody because the game world was much larger, there was only a handful of times I ran into anybody I knew or met someone and became friends, and everytime it was always in orgrimmar. In XIV, it's happened everywhere nearly and much more often due to the 'smaller' areas and more generalized idle locations, as well as party finder.

I guess I don't understand this point.

Sure, they are talking. However, you don't need them to do anything. You don't feel danger when exiting the city. You don't feel any excitement. There is no challenge to the zone, the shout is probably talking about politics or something stupid. They are names and faces you forget.

Of I'm not mistaking,... The mmo RIFT started dungeon finder. Correct me if I'm wrong someone

I didn't say WoW invented it. WoW barely invented anything, pretty much copied most of its ideas from everyone else.

[FoxyAreku]

Sure, they are talking. However, you don't need them to do anything. You don't feel danger when exiting the city. You don't feel any excitement. There is no challenge to the zone, the shout is probably talking about politics or something stupid. They are names and faces you forget.

So like every other MMO today then.

The days where the open world is dangerous and requires multiple people to traverse through is long gone and won't return. Difficulty of that kind is seen as nothing but an inconvienence, blame today's lazy gamers. At least in this game you have fates and raid encounters.

[FaizeD]

I'll echo the sentiment someone mentioned earlier about XIV having the worst stat itemisation in any MMO I've played. They were aiming for simplicity but just made it far too basic, to the point where your rotation/gameplay at i170 is the same at i210. Because all pieces of gear are just stat sticks. There are no added procs on gear. There are no unique skill/spell modifiers which make X preferable to Y under condition Z. There are no situational pieces to switch up in order to adapt to boss mechanics in a specific raid. Healer BiS is all the same whether you need heavy AoE healing, single target healing, HoTs, shields, dps, survivability, mass status removal - you wear the same stuff.

It's for this reason alone that horizontal progression will not work well in this game, and why vertical progression is somewhat underwhelming.

[Jhett_Magnum]

So like every other MMO today then.

The days where the open world is dangerous and requires multiple people to traverse through is long gone and won't return. Difficulty of that kind is seen as nothing but an inconvienence, blame today's lazy gamers.

The sad truth.

[Gardes]

So like every other MMO today then.

The days where the open world is dangerous and requires multiple people to traverse through is long gone and won't return. Difficulty of that kind is seen as nothing but an inconvienence, blame today's lazy gamers. At least in this game you have fates and raid encounters.

It's amusing when people use this as an excuse, they never refer to themselves.

"I feel you but there's this bunch of people who can't stand actual mmos these days. There's a lot of them even though, but I'm not actually one of them! And...I'm gonna stand up for them even if I don't see eye to eye with them."

Wait, no, it's not amusing at all.

[Leigaon]

Is horizontal gearing really just the same gear with slightly different attributes?

Basically yes, the problem at least to me is that this game isn't unique enough to offer horizontal progression in terms of gear. We do not have anything but the base stats to work with so there is nothing to really add on, maybe one set will give det and crit but the other might give det and skill speed. I only relate to XI because that was my MMO but in terms of that game you had "Enhanced X" which really made you want it. Here there is nothing like that, at least not yet.

[Nadirah]

BTW, WoW had it's dungeon finder system before Rift even launched.

[Hayward]

Even if SE bent to your whims, the bean-counter forum would still make sure everyone had to have one optimum set of gear or get put on the "Do Not Play" list.

[LineageRazor]

Even if SE bent to your whims, the bean-counter forum would still make sure everyone had to have one optimum set of gear or get put on the "Do Not Play" list.

Actually, it'd be a little worse than that. If we had solid horizontal progression options, the bean-counters would insist that you have ALL of the optimum sets of gear.

Bean-counter: Eh, so you're a BRD, eh? I see you have Orichalcum Earrings of Aiming; that's good for most stuff, but you're planning on doing instance X, right? Hope you have Alabaster Earrings for the reduced Blunt Arrow recast. Don't forget you'll need your Eldrich Earclasps to turn your elemental attacks into physical damage; you won't be using them in instance X, but Y comes after and you'll need it there for sure, thanks to the boss's magic resistance. Now, let's talk about the REST of your gear...

I'd welcome this kind of thing, actually - so long as we had the inventory space to accomodate it all...

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Actually, it'd be a little worse than that. If we had solid horizontal progression options, the bean-counters would insist that you have ALL of the optimum sets of gear.

Bean-counter: Eh, so you're a BRD, eh? I see you have Orichalcum Earrings of Aiming; that's good for most stuff, but you're planning on doing instance X, right? Hope you have Alabaster Earrings for the reduced Blunt Arrow recast. Don't forget you'll need your Eldrich Earclasps to turn your elemental attacks into physical damage; you won't be using them in instance X, but Y comes after and you'll need it there for sure, thanks to the boss's magic resistance. Now, let's talk about the REST of your gear...

I'd welcome this kind of thing, actually - so long as we had the inventory space to accomodate it all...

That isn't Horizontal Progression. That is forced Vertical Progression. There is no other choice if one choice is 100% better.

Like for example, why go into a dungeon with an ilvl150 book when you have a ilvl200 book? There is no choice there, one is 100% better.

You must of been playing pretty bad games if that is what they made you do.