More Horizontal Progression please

[Nektulos-Tuor]

The very reason content lasted that long was because desirable drops had shitty drop rates. Most casual gamers don't have the time or desire to invest in that.

It did always give them something to work for though. Unlike today's games.

2% Drop rate for a fabled was "crappy" however, the bonus it gave made the dungeon so much easier. The gear made a huge impact on the dungeon's difficulty. You felt MORE powerful compared to other people.

None of the loot in this game "excites me". I am not encouraged to do anything. This is probably the most boring September i've ever had. =P

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

That is why you have both Horizontal and Vertical progression.

You really must have played a "VERY" bad Horizontal Progression game.

[Nadirah]

And by "years" I mean 10. And by number of surveys analyzed I mean over 70,000.

[Hix]

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

[Xatsh]

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

People keep using this argument but then why are the more horizontal (non-pvp based mmos) the longest living mmos out there still.

If people will get bored and quit. Why Did EQ and FFXI have a turn over about 1/10th the size of current mmos? Why dd the same people day and in day out play for 10s of thousands of hours?

Horizontal progression does not mean lack of new content. It just means old content is not thrown away when new stuff is added. And if you have to stop thinking of gear an linear for it work in Horizontal. There is no 1 BIS piece in horizontal. There are many. Each with different effects

I really think the main opponents of horizontal growth are either those who never played a game with it, or played a really bad game with it. I do not understand why someone would want content to be removed if there is still equal amount of new content being added to the game.

[Gralna]

snip

Oh how I miss the days of using a template builder to figure out what the best possible pieces I could use to get stats I wanted, around a couple of pieces of gear I really wanted. Then spending months trying to farm all of them, and I'd usually get to run around for a few weeks or at most a couple of months in that gear, then they'd add more gear, potentially with gear that would fit just slightly better for my template... so I'd recalculate again, farm again.

Difference is that each update, I didn't have to refarm my entire set, I had pieces from vanilla that I was still using in endgame.

[LunaHoshino]

People keep using this argument but then why are the more horizontal (non-pvp based mmos) the longest living mmos out there still.

Because people are gullible. It's very, very easy to convince yourself that if you just keep playing, you're sure to get your drop tomorrow or the next day-- and see? That guy over there got his, so surely you'll be next. And you can keep telling yourself that for months on end because the drop rate is just high enough that you can see other people getting what they want.

You get so focused on that that you don't even realize that you're no longer having any fun, because you keep telling yourself that it will be fun again once you finally get your drop. That's why people stick around in those games.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Because people are gullible. It's very, very easy to convince yourself that if you just keep playing, you're sure to get your drop tomorrow or the next day-- and see? That guy over there got his, so surely you'll be next. And you can keep telling yourself that for months on end because the drop rate is just high enough that you can see other people getting what they want.

You get so focused on that that you don't even realize that you're no longer having any fun, because you keep telling yourself that it will be fun again once you finally get your drop. That's why people stick around in those games.

That's pretty much how I played Lineage 2. Tried to go back a few months ago and just quit immediately lol

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Because people are gullible. It's very, very easy to convince yourself that if you just keep playing, you're sure to get your drop tomorrow or the next day-- and see? That guy over there got his, so surely you'll be next. And you can keep telling yourself that for months on end because the drop rate is just high enough that you can see other people getting what they want.

You get so focused on that that you don't even realize that you're no longer having any fun, because you keep telling yourself that it will be fun again once you finally get your drop. That's why people stick around in those games.

I have a lot of fun farming drops if they make me powerful. A lot of people do, that is why they like Diablo style of games, it just used to be a concept for MMOs as well.

[Xatsh]

Because people are gullible. It's very, very easy to convince yourself that if you just keep playing, you're sure to get your drop tomorrow or the next day-- and see? That guy over there got his, so surely you'll be next. And you can keep telling yourself that for months on end because the drop rate is just high enough that you can see other people getting what they want.

You get so focused on that that you don't even realize that you're no longer having any fun, because you keep telling yourself that it will be fun again once you finally get your drop. That's why people stick around in those games.

I will take farming sky or seas over alexander savage any day of the week.

It is not being gullable it is actually enjoying content that is not designed to be throw away or bash your head against the wall for 500hrs to clear it.

I do not understand how anyone can enjoy raiding (if you can even call it that) in XIV. Oh BOY I can't wait to get on to spend 4hrs tonight getting 1/2 more of a phase into the 9 phase boss.... WoW such fun........................

Oh and did I mention after the 300-500 hrs spent... your gear it worthless in probably 2-4 months after you get it. So enjoy wasting all your time on "Vanity gear" in the end. But do not worry in the next even patch you can bash your head against the wall all over for new gear... that is the same Garbage with a few more stats on it.

SUCH FUN!

Who are the gullible ones... The people who are trying to get gear that will permanently better your character. OR People who are getting gear that is vendored in 3 months while spending = amounts of time getting said gear.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I will take farming sky or seas over alexander savage any day of the week.

It is not being gullable it is actually enjoying content that is not designed to be throw away or bash your head against the wall for 500hrs to clear it.

I do not understand how anyone can enjoy raiding (if you can even call it that) in XIV. Oh BOY I can't wait to get on to spend 4hrs tonight getting 1/2 more of a phase into the 9 phase boss.... WoW such fun........................

Oh and did I mention after the 300-500 hrs spent... your gear it worthless in probably 2-4 months after you get it. So enjoy wasting all your time on "Vanity gear" in the end. But do not worry in the next even patch you can bash your head against the wall all over for new gear... that is the same Garbage with a few more stats on it.

SUCH FUN!

Who are the gullible ones... The people who are trying to get gear that will permanently better your character. OR People who are getting gear that is vendored in 3 months while spending = amounts of time getting said gear.

Not to mention fighting one boss the same way that never changes over/over can be mentally exhausting. Its like a Job, except you pay them instead of getting payed. Lol.