Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Rhomagus]

And I'm back. Here you go.

Your view is Mechanics > Immersion Ultimately yes. I've never advocated for the abolioshment of immersion., my view Mechanics need to be balanced properly with Immersion.But immersion is subjective. Content can add immersion. Immersion for immersion sake is not content. You don't need to balance immersion with content when your content is immersive. This is at the basis of my "Future Airship Content Ideas". They add content. A side effect of adding that content is immersion. You don't balance the two, one is a product of the other. You can have mechanics without immersion, but can you have immersion without mechanics. No you cannot. If you have no mechanics you have no foundation. "Mechanics" can be applied to any art medium i.e. the underlying structure. You talk of balance here and there but as you said it in your main view you truly don't believe in balance between the two at allYou're right, I don't. They don't need to be balanced, mechanics breed immersion. Context breeds immersion. Player involvement breeds immersion. Immersion is not a one way street. Trivial things, like waiting on an airship, can add to immersion but at the sacrifice of mechanics. Now giving you content (gameplay) to be utilized on the airship ride gives you the same amount of immersion as if you were just sitting there. A "Where's Waldo" style minigame, while adding immersion, is trivial, requires minimal involvement, and would not be considered worthwhile content in my opinion. Forcing someone to experience that when they don't want to is unnecessary. Add an airship content, maybe instance it or don't instance it, provide ample rewards that tie into other aspects of the game weaving a tapestry of gameplay then you have immersion. Forcing people to AFK sammich is not immersion. Choosing not pick the "load less traveled" is all fine and dandy, but don't complain about the game not being immersive when it gave you the option to use it and you decided not too. That's not the game's fault, it's not my fault, it's not the people who don't want to AFK on an airship's fault. It's your own fault for not immersing yourself when you had the chance. My proposal's give room to those who want immersion, those who don't want immersion, and those who want immersion sometimes and don't want immersion other times. In no way does this effect your gameplay, as you've been given the choice. , you want it your way just as i want it my way.I want it my way and your way. You only want it your way. You must show how I'm limiting your options first before making such a comment. So please again stop trying to play your posts off like your being the neutral partyI'm not the neutral party. I'm against people forcing tedium for immersion's sake. Immersion should never be the premise for making someone do something. Immersion is a side effect of game design, not the main goal. If you're game is fun enough people will willfully choose to expand their "suspension of disbelief". and the victim of my "snarky" attitudeI don't play the victim. I call people out on their rhetoric and logical fallacies. Unfortunately I don't play the "high" card either. I do not mind stooping to another's level. I don't pretend to be some hero of the hushed voices. I speak for myself, but I also try to keep other people's views in mind when formulating my own views. when you are just as guiltyI agree, but I don't deny it..

To further expand again with your view point being Mechanics > Immersion relating to the topic of airships and instant travel, i would venture to say you betray your own view. In the case of this airship discussion if we were to put both a qualitative and quantitative value to mechanics, more immersion = more mechanicsI've already stated how immersion for immersion's sake is not mechanics. You're mathematical equation is incorrect. Mechanics + aesthetic details = immersion. You want aesthetic details = immersion = mechanics and are confusing aesthetic details as being interchangeable with mechanics. It's like driving a Dodge Viper with no engine. It's frivolous and holds no value as an automobile. It can be an art installation but it is not an automobile.. If you were to just have instant airship travelAgain, and last time I'll state this, I've never advocated for only instant airship travel. I advocate for genuine airship content and the retention of an instant travel ability. This encompasses everyone's interests. The only group left out in this are elitists, or a more definitive subset of the elitist, the elitist immersionist. I too am an immersionist. If there is an option to ride the airship, especially if choosing to view the cutscene refunds any resources I had to spend in order to board, I will choose to view the scene 90% of the time. I am an immersionist, just like you. I'm just not and elitist immersionist. I don't need other players to be forced to do what I think is fun. I get value out of experiencing content not just achieving the goal. If someone else achieves the goal with "cheat" codes that doesn't lessen my accomplishment. The only time this is an issue is when you're dealing with party/economic/multiplayer content where it indeed effects other people. that would be the only said mechanicIt would be if the instant travel airship were the only option, but it's not so this argument is null., not only lacking in quantity but also id say quality. Now looking on the flip side increasing immersion would increase the mechanicsAlready showed why this is incorrect. so having an airship ride where you have to participateWrong. It should read "so having an airship ride where you can choose to participate" in dynamic content would only be increasing immersion and mechanics together.True. As my "Future Airship Content Ideas" actually lays out. It adds optional dynamic content with risk/reward mechanics while maintaining an option for instant travel. The downside to that option is that you don't get to experience content, and you do not have a chance to recoup your fee. The upside is that people can get to where they are going faster. Win/Win. Immersionists win, Casuals win. The only people who lose are dictatorial elitists. If they leave I'm okay with this. I honestly don't think they are a huge demographic.

"It subjects the argument, not the opinion.." my argument is based and supported by my opinion the two are synonyms in this respectthere is a communication breakdown here and I should've been more descriptive. "The argument" refers to "our argument" the "argument we are having", not "your argument". I was not downplaying "your argument" to semantics, I was downplaying "our argument" to semantics. There is no personal attack here, but I should've been more descriptive in my description of "the argument"., thus you are in fact subjecting my opinion to nothing more then semantics whether you meant to or not.I'm subjecting "our opinion" to semantics. This suggests something entirely different and doesn't nullify your main argument but is being used as a tactic to get back to the main argument as the semantical argument we were getting into was derailing the topic at hand.

You are missing the big pictureI'm taking the photograph of the earth with the hubble telescope. You're taking a photograph of the place you live. everything i have been discussing plays into: the lack of immersion being FF14's major problem.This is where I disagree with you. Lack of immersion is not FF14's main problem. Lack of content, thus a perceived lack of immersion, is FF14's main problem. Instant teleport, instancing all contentTo be fair, not all content will be instanced. There's a reason they are changing the claiming rules. I have a feeling large scale PvE will be a highly utilized feature in FF14. I also never advocated for making all content instanced., instant airship ridesNo problem if it's added as an option. You still retain the choice whether or not to utilize said feature., and so on are all parts of what i view as FF14's main problems.I've shown how suggesting actual content and reducing timesinks will not only help the game, fix your problems, but also create a more dynamic world for everyone. I also never advocated for abolishing non instanced content or that they should only implement instanced content.

No but we can add suggestions and promote particular design philosophies. An open "laissez faire" design philosophy opens up the game to a wider audience rather than a restricted one in the MMO genre. If you're able to attract more demographic areas, you're better suited for sales and retention of customers. I noticed you updated your post with this and in rebuttal i state: "You can not please all of the people all of the time"You can't, you'll have losses. I'm okay with these losses as an open game will be conducive to more people's interests as they'll be able to access it more. No matter how hard you try you can not make everyone happyThis is obivious. As even when you cater to a person's whims it's still not good enough for them, i.e. including immersive elements. that is why video games focus on target demographics.MMO's have greatly expanded those supposed "target demographics". You'd be surprised how many people are included in the MMO demographic. When you focus on all demographics or to many, you create a half assed product and look at what we gotWe got a rushed product, not a half assed one. There's a difference. Also, including more demographics does not mean that the content is half assed. That's an improper correclation. Pleasing multiple people will not please everyone fully, but you can still maintain the interest of a larger group of people as those individuals will like some aspects and will reject others. Providing options for a larger group is different than providing content to a niche group. You can keep your options open for the large group while making sure that among those options contains focused niche group content. Shutting out options in favor of the niche group is tunnel vision when you could provide content for more groups than the niche market..

Probably when you pick this back up i wont be online, but i too pick up my posts from where i left off so post away when you come back if you so feel inclined.

[Rhomagus]

To OP


The way teleporting is right now I think does negatively affect the Emerson of the game. In my opinion a very few people know or understand the lore behind it and it gets lost. What would help is to reduce the frequency of being able to use this. Have a physical toll on your body, a status affect which disappears after a set period of time(not a reduction of stats, just a timer that is the ". Of course this would only be possible with the new addition of airships and chocobos. In addition an intro quest with the tutorial quests rich with a cinematic showing and explaining the wonder of aetherite energy and crystals. Each time you use an aetherite there should be a brief cutscean of your char turning into energy and flowing off into the energy stream.


My 2 gil

I agree with this except for reducing the frequency. Implementing a risk/reward mechanic is fine and adding more in game references to aetherial teleportation is definitely needed. You don't need to nerf the system itself to add immersion though.

[Konachibi]

That's a whole lot of text o.o'

It makes my forum posts look tiny in comparison XD

[Konachibi]

I agree with this except for reducing the frequency. Implementing a risk/reward mechanic is fine and adding more in game references to aetherial teleportation is definitely needed. You don't need to nerf the system itself to add immersion though.

Perhaps add a random algorythm system where repeated frequent use could result in a mis-teleport that would drop you into a really bad area?

The excitement of not knowing if you'll appear in Camp Bloodshore, or a nest of blood-thirsty marmots...

[Rhomagus]

I hear the word 'immersive' a lot in threads and people saying the game 'is' or 'isn't' immersive without any general concensus.

Bluntly: This game IS or ISN'T as immersive as you want it to be. You choose if you want to be sucked into the story and experience it's in's and out's, or if you just want to grind away to get to end-game and kill big stuff.

Anima is a matter of convenience, you don't HAVE to teleport somewhere, the option to run is always present, and since anima is not infinite, then teleporting a lot will result in your running around anyways.
If you have time to run somewhere to do something, run there, don't waste your anima needlessly. If you're short on time, teleport.
With the addition of chocobos in 1.19, you'll probably find, at least for a while, a lot more people will be out in the field rather than teleporting, just 'cos, for a while, riding chocobos will be something new and fun to do. Afterwards, some will continue to ride chocobos, some will continue to run, and some will choose to teleport, depending on each players preference.

So no, instant teleporting and airships doesn't decrease 'immersion', the way you play the game does.

This is what I've been saying all along. +1

[Rhomagus]

I don't recall ever seeing any forum post/letter/article saying if you want a hardcore experience play FF11... I could be mistaken and if so rightfully point out the post/letter/article because at this point all you said was conjecture.

@AmyRae

Wanting a fantasy world to be more immerse does not mean exclusively that real life qualities must be elicit. Creating a immersive fantasy environment can only help a game not hinder.

I agree with this, but I believe that content + aesthetic details = immersion. Immersion is never a goal in and of itself, it's an activity chosen by the consumer of the medium.

They want XIV to have casual and hardcore elements.

[Rhomagus]

Actually the quote is,



spoken by President Lincoln which was adapted from a John Lydgate poem. This wasn't meant to "inspire" people to make others miserable. And that can be your only motivation for fighting the instant airship ride, let's be honest.

For immersion, you will have the long ride, which gets added one patch after the airships. You can take the long walks any time you want. All the immersion you want for yourself in regards to travel you can have. No one is denying you your immersion.

Not everyone is interested in immersion, however, quite the way you envision. There are people who RP their characters with their friends. Having an "instant warp" can actually get them to where they need to be to play out a scene where their friends are gathering faster so they can be a part of the immersion they want to partake in. See what I mean?

It's a tool to be together with your friends who are waiting for you in a distant place. Or to make preparations quickly for the next round of questing, or whatever. The most important aspect that you're completely overlooking is the social aspect, which is really the driving force that keeps people playing. If the game makes it too hard to meet up with your friends and forces you into isolated corners of the world, it's not a fun game at all.

The only corrections I would say are that it's not a well designed multiplayer game. Single player games can incorporate a linear progression mechanic that is more focused and still fun, but XIV is not a single player game.

[Rhomagus]

Easy Transportation does not affect my immersion.

Wanna know what does affect my immersion? (gonna tell you anyway): mindless, non-game related LS Chat & Shouts. Stoopid character names with pop-culture references and/or psuedo-sexual references.

I am not a hardcore Role-Player (you won't see me in the park having mock sword fights) and I don't attempt to speak/chat in a psuedo-cockney accent in game nor do I ever even for a split second think that anything in this game is real however, I do the enjoy the illusion of this alternate reality and do often wish that Real Life could remain absent (and silent) from my fantasy world for a little while.

p.s Don't tell me to go play an offline rpg...I like the dynamic, ever-changing world that a MMORPG provides...even if I do have to interact with stoopid peeplz now and again.

He also knows what he's willing to put up with, which is a tremendous quality to have and allows him to be adaptable to his surroundings. +1.

[Rhomagus]

Yes, its not cheating like the post your referencing says but its still a bummer.

Entering a new zone should be
1. exciting
2. scary
3. adventurous

In XIV currently its not.

These all depend on the player. I walked to Mor Dhona and tried to get all the Aetherytes at R15. All of the above were present when attempting to achieve that goal. Your point has been nullified.

[Eekiki]

These all depend on the player. I walked to Mor Dhona and tried to get all the Aetherytes at R15. All of the above were present when attempting to achieve that goal. Your point has been nullified.

Yep.

You can't possibly tell me you didn't think it was at least a *little* cool the first time you saw the Keeper of the Lake in Mor Dhona.