Minor Complaint/Mini Rant

[AnimaS]

Clearly, this isn't the case. Otherwise SE wouldn't have gutted crafting across the board. And for many, this isn't an option, either due to lack of willpower (seriously, 5% chance to meld materia that costs thousands of gil?) or time (grinding gil, finding GSM that can craft the jewelry, making or waiting for more materia to appear, ect). Also, for when the next EX primal shows up in the DF with a minimum ilvl and you can't queue despite being the MT of your static because your ilvl is floating around 170, there is a problem.

you understand crafting has a system here that supplying blue (WHATEVER) accessories with str and VIT will kill the aforementioned MARKET? ohh puh LEAZE anyone who is on a raid level can FIND a goldsmith ; and the last part; Guess what! you can change gear before pulling in duty finder! do you tank?

FYI i have been main war since i began which is probably getting in the 1.5 year ago area, after reaching the end game raids i quickly found nearly everyone had their crafts leveled up; and if not a major raid group (any savage raid group) HAS an omni crafter available.

Sorry i gotta add this, cause there is no FRiGGEN I lvl requirement for pre made raids.

[Donjo]

Stats!

I once toyed around with ideas regarding changes to the currently existing stats to make them all affect Tanks in ways that help Tanking. Like...

Parry - Affects Parry Strength.
Critical Hit Rate - Changed to Critical Defend Rate; affects Parry Rate.
Determination - "Determination" to not die; reduces damage taken.
Skill Speed - Never actually figured out something for this one. Maybe it'd be okay to leave it alone, considering its position as the DPS stat nobody wants too much of.

[dspguy]

Sorry i gotta add this, cause there is no FRiGGEN I lvl requirement for pre made raids.

Almost entirely true. T9/T13 - if you go in with a premade after it was moved to DF (instead of clicking on the entrance), it does an iLvl check. Minor point.

This day and age though, it isn't like 2.4ish when if you melded certain gear (thinking BRD legs/body) with 4 Tier IV materia and 1 Tier III materia it was comparable if not BiS. It was a corner case and it kept a market open (for materia and gear and the mats necessary). Right now? No such thing. For many that are already using i190,200,210 accessories, it is hard to justify "dropping" to i150. if you are clearing content, I guess it doesn't matter what you are wearing.

[SpookyGhost]

This day and age though, it isn't like 2.4ish when if you melded certain gear (thinking BRD legs/body) with 4 Tier IV materia and 1 Tier III materia it was comparable if not BiS. It was a corner case and it kept a market open (for materia and gear and the mats necessary). Right now? No such thing. For many that are already using i190,200,210 accessories, it is hard to justify "dropping" to i150. if you are clearing content, I guess it doesn't matter what you are wearing.

Those accessories are a theoretical equivalent of i220 accessories, so it's not really i190/i200/i210 -> i150, it's i190/i200/i210 -> i220. If you're progressing in Savage and you haven't already cleared A4S, you should invest in at least 1 crafted accessory (eventually Eso gear + drops will get you to the point where you really only need 1). If you're doing Lucrezia's suicide strat in A4S you can technically go full STR, though I guess we'll see how viable that becomes in the future.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Parry - Affects Parry Strength.
Critical Hit Rate - Changed to Critical Defend Rate; affects Parry Rate.
Determination - "Determination" to not die; reduces damage taken.
Skill Speed - Never actually figured out something for this one. Maybe it'd be okay to leave it alone, considering its position as the DPS stat nobody wants too much of.

I wish this was a thing for Fending gear. Gona call Yoshi and make this happen for 3.1

[Alahra]

My guess is that Heavensward was too far along in development when the offensive tank meta really started to gain ground for them to do anything about it. While pentamelded accessories were really good even back in 2.0, the STR focus for tanks didn't really start to gain ground in the greater community until sometime after SCOB, and wasn't really cemented until FCOB, at least from my experience. Since any changes they make to address this issue--and three classes not wanting the items the developers want them to want is a serious issue--will probably require adjustments across every tank accessory in the game (or a fundamental re-write of every tank weapon skill and ability), it's not something they can really introduce in anything but a primary (expansion) patch.

Something does need to be done about this from a gear perspective, as the game's entire gear system is designed around tanks wanting Fending gear. As is, an entire class of accessories is undesirable to a not-insignificant faction of tanks, and they're competing for accessories that already have two dedicated classes (bringing the total number of classes after Slaying accessories to five). That certainly isn't intentional, nor is it likely intentional that one (and only one) role values pentamelded accessories above all else. They already dislike pentamelded gear because of its ability to push progression (especially when it came to VIT checks in 2.0, which is why we saw them pushed back from that point forward), and I can't imagine they're happy about tanks bypassing gear lockouts either (since they can skip Esoterics accessories).

We probably won't see any changes here until 4.0 because whatever they do is going to have to be a massive adjustment I imagine, which means it's going to be a long 2 years for those of us that were tired of the debate 6 months ago.

[Ralvenom]

VIT accessories
[snip]
All these pre-conceived notions that would be stupid in any other game.

You never played WoW or Rift or SWTOR, did you? Tank damage has ALWAYS been a thing. Some games have handled it differently than others (and some game have changed how they handled it completely during expansions), but ultimately it comes down to the fact that good tanks figure out how to contribute a solid amount of damage.

No other job has this problem, even healers (who also DPS) will use MND accessories, not INT or something equally silly.

That's because healers have Cleric Stance, which swaps their MND and INT attribute points and has only a 5 seconds recast.

it's just mind blowing that I have to sit down with the recruits and tell them they need to get different accessories.

You know what's really mind-numbing? That these recruits didn't take 2 minutes looking this stuff up on Google.

[Sapphidia]

You never played WoW or Rift or SWTOR, did you? Tank damage has ALWAYS been a thing. Some games have handled it differently than others (and some game have changed how they handled it completely during expansions), but ultimately it comes down to the fact that good tanks figure out how to contribute a solid amount of damage.

The difference with FFXIV is that tanks have to sacrifice a heck of a lot of "tankiness" in order to push out that damage. Noone wants tanks to do zero damage, and everyone understands that tank damage is a vital part of raiding/dungeons.

What people object to I think is that tanks -here- are encouraged to avoid all tanking stats, avoid vitality accessories, and spend as much time as humanly possible in their squishy DPS stance. It's the sacrifice - it makes tanks feel more like they're just a DPS class with a couple of cooldowns for tankbusters rather than an actual -tank- class.

Not saying people shouldnt do that, any good tank in FF is currently rocking slaying or pentamelds and trying to push DPS as high as possible by dropping tank stance at every opportunity. but it feels like very odd game design, especially when the mechanics of the game tell us otherwise.

- We can't roll on Slaying accessories when they drop, implying we're "supposed" to use Fending.
- Our tank stances have 5% hit on them implying the devs intended us to gear for only using our DPS stances when attacking from the side/rear.
- Parry is all over our chosen gear, yet everyone acknowledges we want to avoid it.
- 180 crafted accessories arent ingame because devs dont want us using them.

Those are all weird hurdles that tanks look at and go "huh?". Yes, a good tank will just ignore them.

But it still seems really strange if all those mechanics are in the game. The Devs clearly -intend- tanks to be in vitality gear and tanking stance for the most part, yet it's now pretty much viewed as the most suboptimal way to play the class by the vast majority of the informed community.

Something has to change. Either the devs have to alter the class skills/balance slightly to make it clear they intend us to be tanking loads in sword oath, normalise the DPS outputs of the 3 tank classes a bit and allow tanks to roll Need on Strength accessories... or they need to change the mechanics of raids slightly so "tankiness" isnt completely redundant.

Right now it just smacks of unintentional/bad game design.

[DGladius]

For me I love being able to do high dps as a tank and be able to tank. It actually feels like I'm actually a warrior wielding a giant menacing axe. I would not enjoy tanking if they hit like wet noodles.

[Ralvenom]

The difference with FFXIV is that tanks have to sacrifice a heck of a lot of "tankiness" in order to push out that damage.

Actually, it's no different than how WoW & Rift currently work.