"Base/Simple" stigma of Paladin and how we must deal with it/prepare for the future.

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

We're all no doubt ran ragged from every form of social media pulling us in multiple directions, forcing us to think a certain way about the community seemingly "pissing and moaning itself" into exhaustion when it's really only a small percentage doing that. We as Paladins (and I think I can speak for more than just me,) are mostly just afraid of not even being considered worthy of acknowledgement just because a development team thinks we should be "simple" in every aspect much in the same way mushrooms with appendages are viewed in Marry-oh. Much like everything else in life the "simple" things are over looked until it's in your face or brought to your attention in the fashion of a tragedy that could have possibly been avoided. That last sentence is extremely hyperbolic because this is just a game, but since I've sat down and thought for a few moments, I love playing Paladin and I'm not going to let a development team dictate what I play.

If my job choice is to die because it's "simple," I'll meet you on the battlefield, fight tooth and nail for every bit of content we can get through and garner your respect and the development teams attention by doing so. As it stands it's the only option a "simple" job has to stand a chance at being relevant the longer its lifespan is drawn out. I'll have to be carried because of my forced simplicity, but I'll make damned sure I help where possible in every single instance.

[Sleigh]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

[Giantbane]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

something something something tiger blood


at least that's what I got out of it

[SpookyGhost]

He's going to fight for his right to... simple.

Or something.

[Sapphidia]

Paladin doesnt have a stigma because it's simple, it has a stigma because in practise it does poopy damage compared to the other tanks.

If anything "simple" can be a benefit because it often means reliable/consistant in a game with complicated boss mechanics. I think I see what you're trying to say, but I think it's a little misguided!

[Duelle]

Paladin doesnt have a stigma because it's simple, it has a stigma because in practise it does poopy damage compared to the other tanks.

If anything "simple" can be a benefit because it often means reliable/consistant in a game with complicated boss mechanics. I think I see what you're trying to say, but I think it's a little misguided!

The problem is not PLD's design, but the fact the devs allowed the tank meta to focus on DPS. That in itself is the result of not designing tanks to keep them tanking in their tank stance (since a good part of the DPS issue wouldn't exist if they had; all it would mean is that raids would have had to spend an extra week or two or esoterics to gear their DPS appropriately to meet the checks in Alexander).

The desire for "simple" comes from the fact half the people on these forums want PLD turned into a WAR or DRK facsimile for the sake of increasing its DPS.

[Metalwrath]

The problem is not PLD's design, but the fact the devs allowed the tank meta to focus on DPS. That in itself is the result of not designing tanks to keep them tanking in their tank stance (since a good part of the DPS issue wouldn't exist if they had; all it would mean is that raids would have had to spend an extra week or two or esoterics to gear their DPS appropriately to meet the checks in Alexander).

The desire for "simple" comes from the fact half the people on these forums want PLD turned into a WAR or DRK facsimile for the sake of increasing its DPS.

Have the devs really forced this though?Could it also be that Alex Savage was designed to be super hard unless you'd saved up your tomes and bought all that i200 gear..I doubt it was made to be cleared in the first few weeks.It was designed like coil was when it first came out. .I doubt the devs would make content that wasn't viable with all tank situations.

[Duelle]

Have the devs really forced this though? Could it also be that Alex Savage was designed to be super hard unless you'd saved up your tomes and bought all that i200 gear..I doubt it was made to be cleared in the first few weeks.It was designed like coil was when it first came out. I doubt the devs would make content that wasn't viable with all tank situations.

The devs didn't force it, but they didn't do anything to prevent or derail what happened early enough, either. Even if Alex Savage was designed to be cleared in full i200 esoterics gear regardless of who is doing the tanking, it still doesn't negate that raids have used things to circumvent that. This in itself would be fine if it was determined by execution of mechanics, but instead it seems clears hinge on DPS from non-DPS jobs. I knew something was wrong when people started talking about how tanks should tank in DPS stance (the thing that's implemented for off-tanking).

What we're seeing is also trends forming and the playerbase judging jobs based on that. While some will delude themselves into thinking the contrary, the guilds that do world first clears and cutting edge content determine how everyone else sees and uses classes/jobs. The fact this hasn't sorted itself out and instead gotten worse (from "PLD has lacking DPS but brings utility" to "PLD is useless because it doesn't bring WAR-level DPS") is cause for concern.

[Seshayn]

*snip*

Well said. You are quite the inspiration to those of us whose passions override our ability to voice our thoughts in a calm and thoughtful manner.

[Brian_]

The problem is not PLD's design, but the fact the devs allowed the tank meta to focus on DPS. That in itself is the result of not designing tanks to keep them tanking in their tank stance (since a good part of the DPS issue wouldn't exist if they had; all it would mean is that raids would have had to spend an extra week or two or esoterics to gear their DPS appropriately to meet the checks in Alexander).

The desire for "simple" comes from the fact half the people on these forums want PLD turned into a WAR or DRK facsimile for the sake of increasing its DPS.

No, it is not only the meta, the "systems" surrounding tanking mechanics and raid design. It is ALSO the FACT that PLD has some unaddressed design oversights in their kit.

This is the same as saying "oh, DRK design is fine because the tanking meta makes them good." No, DRK also has some glaring design issues. It's just that their issues aren't large enough to really impact their place within the meta.

People continue to post in complete ignorance. Look at the facts.

Rage of Halone's potency and enmity are what they are because PLDs only had Rage of Halone in 2.X. If they didn't lower the enmity, you would have some serious enmity juggling issues in multiple tank situations. Anyone that played PLD in 2.X at any reasonable level knows about this problem. But, that was 2.X. With the release of 3.X and the introduction of 2 new PLD combos, there is no reason to not adjust RoH outside of concerns about PLD performance in leveling / synced content.

The same goes for Shield Swipe. It is still balanced based on 2.X. Based on the average potency of PLD combos in 2.X, Shield Swipe was a very slight DPS gain at a lower TP cost. Based on the average potency of PLD combos in 3.X, Shield Swipe is a DPS loss. They didn't adjust Shield Swipe's potency for 3.X appropriately.

A lot of the other issues are carry overs from 2.X that have always been problems. PLDs just kind of took them in stride because they were still fine for raid content. Now, the problems have mounted to this tipping point. So, it's not only an issue of the meta. It's not good that so many PLD abilities are under performing or unusable based on clear design/balance failures.