The Real Problem with Parsers

[Isala]

All I'm seeing from this thread is a couple of people QQing because they probably got kicked from dungeons for having shit dps and now want them gone completely.

Honestly, it's never the good players crying about parsers. Hasn't been in any MMO. It's always been the "It's my $15!" crowd who can't perform, getting upset that people actually expected them to perform the bare minimum expectations of their jobs. And then they try to hide behind the logic of "We're the majority!" You wanna see how the terribad majority supports a company? Look at WoW, dropping millions of subs every time they cater even to the fails. What nobody seems to get, which has been thrown around in the industry quite a bit lately, is that the casual "majority" is actually pretty toxic to the industry as a whole. The quick fix crowd is detrimental. Because in catering to them, you lose the people who would be lifetime fans of your product, the more serious gamers. Nintendo actually just realized this recently, and said so in an interview. When you cater to the quick fix crowd, you alienate the people who would support you most.

[Eye_Gore]

Then why are you against parser. I'd rather precise numbers than *Yep, SOMEONE in the group is bad*

Not sure I said I was against it, just don't really see a need for it in the lower end stuff. I don't care if people use them or not.

[pandabearcat]

Noone's going to care in a dungeon or the "lower end stuff". People (possibly me, I cannot confirm nor deny) use parsers at all levels of content. If they do it is because of their own personality, not anything to do with whether or not there is an "official" parser.

Having a more robust combat log and addon functionality (the two prereqs to an actual parser) will only help the community get better at playing etc.

The reason you have so many bads is

1. The rotations in this game are really, really lame. They do not reward spontaneity nor decision making, but rather rote memorization and button bloat and as a result it leads to a high skill floor required to execute properly. The rest is situational awareness which I won't really comment on as the difficulty of that depends on player and encounter.
2. Did I mention the rotations are really lame?
3. Man the rotations suck.

I actually wish they took MORE out of WoW's book and make classes accessible but leave room to improve on every encounter, inject some procs and resource pooling/bursting to actually put some power back into the player's hands.

Right now a mechanical 1234 static rotation does better than a decision making priority engine, so that says a lot about the game's design. Literally if you had enough keys you could just go through 1234567890abcdefg and move around and you'd be done.

Oops I started ranting again.

[rappa]

Parser ingame or outside, doesn't matter. Bad and dick players will be there.

[zlotjko]

soooo, if i understand the topic:

- lets ban testing tools because they show how much someone is bad?

Its not a topic related to "how to get better / learn your job better" its a topic related to "how to avoid getting the results of ( the lack of) effort".
That is why there are 2 sides on this, those who are afraid of results and those who aren't.

In DF, most of the time, people can't test your dps unless using a parser/looking at the threat meter. But the lack of a parser can't hide a crappy tank or healer or the feeling that the mobs are dying slowly.

Mobs are dying slowly, you try to see wants going on and if you see that the source of the issue just doesn't care, then kick him. Why should you care if he doesn't? I mean, every time i see a monk that doesn't change his position, i kindly ask first and my reaction depends on his answer. And thats without looking at the parser/threat meter.

In DF there is no such thing as "1k dps requirement" because its DF.
In PF, which SHOULD allow someone to put requirements that he thinks are necessary, a parser would just be a confirmation of a passed requirement.
On the other hand if you want to lie and cheat your way in, that is another topic.

Its no shame to be bad, to be a beginner and to learn. On the other hand, cheating, lazy, getting carried and avoiding responsibility that you have when you enter a group, is.

parsers are just tools that summarize someones ability with a job on a static target that doesn't fight back.
Not wanting it, would be like kicking out tests in school.
Yea there are special schools (for both talented and for disabled people) and tests are tailored for their needs, but i have yet to see a school that doesn't have a system for evaluating effort.
And toxicity that you are talking about is the result of a clash of expected results.

Too high expectations, laziness, cheating or being an aHole (in general), are there with or without parsers.
Adding them (as a dummy training only) would only help people and reduce the frustration of people that want to get good. As for the others, its painfully obvious that people will not stick with them unless they are same-minded about the game/effort.

[Viridiana]

A4 normal 2 runs /Ramuh Pony farm : 1k DPS or kick.

I don't see how this would support the pro parsing side .

Ravana PF set to i180 minimum. Because, y'know, that's totally not clearable at 170 or lower. Meanwhile the i185 MNK is putting up atrocious numbers because he doesn't know his class. Would you rather be barred from the party for not meeting an entirely subjective metric, or get rid of the weak link objectively holding people back? Meanwhile, if someone's kicking DPS when DPS aren't the problem, leave the group. Feel free to put up a PF below theirs explaining to the server that this person has no clue what they're doing. Or is that to much like improving the community for you?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

snip

HE gets it. Well said!

[DestinovaTrueblade]

A4 normal 2 runs /Ramuh Pony farm : 1k DPS or kick.

I don't see how this would support the pro parsing side .

People can set whatever requirements they want for their pre-made. Hell they can say "Everyone must wear pink" and it would still be fine, its a pre-made.

[koroko220]

Parsing isn't fair simply because pc users can do it and console users cannot. Those numbers should not be used against anyone because we all do not have fair and equal access to them.

[Viridiana]

Parsing isn't fair simply because pc users can do it and console users cannot. Those numbers should not be used against anyone because we all do not have fair and equal access to them.

Welcome to the conversation, where we keep asking for SE to implement an official parser specifically so that PS3 and PS4 can have access.