Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Jaber]

you are confusing what you don't enjoy in a game with what immersion is actually defined as and used for. at some points in life standing and looking out at a scenic view, or waiting for a trip to end is part of a immersive factor. Again i would like to emphasize standing still is not all that immersion is but rather 1/10000000 of a part of immersion as NPC actually moving around a city would be another 1/10000000 of immersion. Slowing down is not naturally a bad thing in a game, but this new emerging mind set believes that gear scores, and raid running is the only appropriate mechanic of a game so hey if that what you enjoy i suggest looking outside of the final fantasy franchise.

Which is why I asked you for examples of games that are popular because people enjoy having to wait without having the option to do otherwise. I don't understand why you cannot enjoy your waiting while other people have the option of not waiting if they so choose(since it's pretty obvious from all the topics that it's quite a divided issue).
Because you won't have anyone to wait with? If it was something everyone enjoyed, why wouldn't there be anyone to wait with? If it's forced, the people who don't enjoy it are just going to be AFK, and you end up no better off while they end up inconvenienced.

[Bled]

Which is why I asked you for examples of games that are popular because people enjoy having to wait without having the option to do otherwise. I don't understand why you cannot enjoy your waiting while other people have the option of not waiting if they so choose(since it's pretty obvious from all the topics that it's quite a divided issue).
Because you won't have anyone to wait with? If it was something everyone enjoyed, why wouldn't there be anyone to wait with? If it's forced, the people who don't enjoy it are just going to be AFK, and you end up no better off while they end up inconvenienced.

Before the skip cut scene feature, waiting was a huge part of video games, so do i really need to list them off for you? Even in call of duty there are parts of the game where you are forced to watch a scene play out before you. You say whats so bad allowing people the option to insta telepot i re rebuttal with Abysea from FF11.

When SE created abysea in FF11 they said "o hey guys abysea wont ruin anything because people can still choose to experience the old content". well guess what it did ruin FF11, by creating content that is so drastically different and "easy access" that makes old content obsolete, you pigonhole people into having to use the new content. In reality by introducing all of this new instant gratification content all old content and immersion is becoming obsolete thus forcing people to use said new instant gratification while masking its true cause by saying "were giving you the option to choose".

Choice is over rated, especially when the people choosing are as smart as your common household cat.

[Jaber]

Before the skip cut scene feature, waiting was a huge part of video games, so do i really need to list them off for you? Even in call of duty there are parts of the game where you are forced to watch a scene play out before you. You say whats so bad allowing people the option to insta telepot i re rebuttal with Abysea from FF11.

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

[Azurymber]

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

i found CoP easy to do. And almost everyone got it done. It was a challenge. It made it that much more special when you got past the promys. Once you got level sync and could use high level gear i dont know many ppl who had problems with it. On my server ppl who shouted in town got a party together in less than 30min usually.

[Bled]

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

Human nature; present a caveman with magically cooked chicken that appears before him or force him to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. Of course the cave man would choose the magical cooked chicken appearing before his eyes, however guess what he had to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. So because the cave man had to take the hard road he learned more along the way like fire, hunting, skinning, bone craving, weapon making. Can you stop and even imagine where we would be today if everything was just given to us!?!?

Human nature is to take the easy way out so if you present game content that has easy content and hard content it is only natural for a person to choose easy content. In this respect people should not have any choice or say in the games development.

Edit: and again you are confusing your own impatiences for what immersion actually is.

[Jaber]

Human nature; present a caveman with magically cooked chicken that appears before him or force him to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. Of course the cave man would choose the magical cooked chicken appearing before his eyes, however guess what he had to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. So because the cave man had to take the hard road he learned more along the way like fire, hunting, skinning, bone craving, weapon making. Can you stop and even imagine where we would be today if everything was just given to us!?!?

Human nature is to take the easy way out so if you present game content that has easy content and hard content it is only natural for a person to choose easy content. In this respect people should not have any choice or say in the games development.

The flaw in your argument is that this is a game.
People don't play games to 'take the easy way out'. They play games to take the fun way. If the fun way is the easy way, okay. If it's not, that's okay too. In FFXIV, they will be able to choose the way in which they get the most enjoyment, and unlike in your example, they don't have any sort of threat pressuring them to go one way or the other. As long as the choice isn't affecting anyone but themselves, they can choose whichever they like, and if they choose to take the way that they don't enjoy because it's the "easy way", it's their own damn fault. It doesn't need to be forced for you to enjoy it.

In the end, no matter what they choose, the only prize is getting to their destination. It's not like an "LOL INSTANT LEVEL UP BUTTON EASY MODO". It's not a symbol of status to go to limsa from uldah. There's no epeen or achievement involved.
There's just "I want to/don't feel like looking at the scenery for 10-60 minutes, so I'll do this".

[Bled]

The flaw in your argument is that this is a game.
People don't play games to 'take the easy way out'. They play games to take the fun way. If the fun way is the easy way, okay. If it's not, that's okay too. In FFXIV, they will be able to choose the way in which they get the most enjoyment, and unlike in your example, they don't have any sort of threat pressuring them to go one way or the other, and as long as the choice isn't affecting anyone but themselves, they can choose whichever they like.

In the end, no matter what they choose, the only prize is getting to their destination. It's not like an "LOL INSTANT LEVEL UP BUTTON EASY MODO". It's not a symbol of status to go to limsa from uldah. There's no epeen or achievement involved.
There's just "I want to/don't feel like looking at the scenery for 10-60 minutes, so I'll do this".

The point went completely over your head, shall i try to explain it to you or am i leading a horse to water just to find he wont drink?

[Jaber]

The point went completely over your head, shall i try to explain it to you or am i leading a horse to water just to find he wont drink?

Is your new debate tactic saying things that are so completely irrelevant and stupid that it leaves people speechless?

If you had the option of riding the airship or skipping it, which would you choose?
Would you ride it?
Would you skip it?
If you would ride it, why is the option of skipping it a problem for you?
If you would skip it, why would lacking that option make riding it enjoyable?

I mean, I could understand if it were going to be either/or, but since there's going to be both options, how is it a problem for you if other people can choose not to do it the way you prefer?
I don't see anyone arguing for having the option of skipping it arguing against having the option to ride it, yet everyone who wants to ride it seems to be vehemently opposed to anyone being able to skip it.
I don't get it, and have come to believe that those people don't fully understand it themselves, either.

[Rhomagus]

Human nature; present a caveman with magically cooked chicken that appears before him or force him to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. Of course the cave man would choose the magical cooked chicken appearing before his eyes, however guess what he had to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. So because the cave man had to take the hard road he learned more along the way like fire, hunting, skinning, bone craving, weapon making. Can you stop and even imagine where we would be today if everything was just given to us!?!?

Human nature is to take the easy way out so if you present game content that has easy content and hard content it is only natural for a person to choose easy content. In this respect people should not have any choice or say in the games development.

Edit: and again you are confusing your own impatiences for what immersion actually is.

I believe this addresses your concerns:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Content-Ideas.

There's ample motivation to choose the option you want for the content that you want. As long as reward/difficulty/time spent is balanced I don't see how that couldn't add more to the game whilst still providing immersion and a potential form of quick travel for those who want it.

[Bled]

I believe this addresses your concerns:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Content-Ideas.

There's ample motivation to choose the option you want for the content that you want. As long as reward/difficulty/time spent is balanced I don't see how that couldn't add more to the game whilst still providing immersion and a potential form of quick travel for those who want it.

I love your immersive dynamic content idea, however as I'm sure your aware If that choice were to be presented the hard way would have to out way the easy way with benefits, as does anything of that nature.