Yoshi P / Dev Team: FAVOR System - Please Fix This BROKEN System

[Rath]

I don't understand why they removed DoW/DoM from the economy in the manner they did, while at the same time giving us i180 DoW/DoM recipes.

I expect the FC exploration islands will pretty much be the dow/m contributions as they said there will be gathering nodes after you clear out the wildlife

[Hennessy]

I personally don't think the current system is broken at all, they just made it much harder and slower to reach that level we have grown accustomed to (of having all DOH classes max geared) and I think that is what most people are unhappy with.

The economy sucks right now, I agree, but that is because they haven't yet released the crafted items (cool new furniture, shiny glamour worthy weapons and armor, 180 accessories, etc.) that will be the rewards of our current grind to get the best DOH gear. It is not because of a broken system. In that respect I would have to 100% agree with Thrustie that increasing the yield from favors now before any real rewards have been introduced would have been wholly unfair to many and is the reason why they didn't change that.

[Hennessy]

Eventual nerfs to grinds are expected, no one is denying that, but any reasonable player would not expect them to nerf the middle of a current grind before those who put in more effort had the chance to reap the benefits of their hard work. Doing so would seriously undermine and discount the time and energy those early grinders put in. I can't recall a single time Square Enix has nerfed the grind of current and still relevant content in this game. For those claiming that nerfs are always expected and that a buff to favor yields was a complete possibility in 3.07 and that it wouldn't have been unfair, can you name a time when they nerfed the grind for still relevant content? The only thing that I can think of that even comes close is the ironworks fishing rod but then again I guess the fishermen in this game are already used to being treated unfairly =/

[Ossom]

For me as well, but only partly. I also had to look ahead and realise that the supply of favor materials I could obtain were not enough. Ultimately if its 4 hours or 11 doesnt matter much to be if you can't obtain the materials needed.

I think this sums this entire thing up nicely. Greed.

"It's not enough, why can't I get twice as much or 4 times as much? Why can't I just do one favor and get enough materials to make a full set?"

You said : Ultimately if its 4 hours or 11 doesnt matter much to be if you can't obtain the materials needed.

But the funny thing is, the rate is roughly 1 2 Star Materials per Red Rowena Token. This allows you get Roughly 11 2 Star materials a week. Thats enough to make 2 MHs and a Body piece, a week, or 3 Body pieces an a belt, or 2 Body pieces and a main hand, or 1 Mh, 1 Body Piece and 1 Leg piece a week for your craft.

How can you ask for more? You can't even use more because you wouldn't be able to trade them in, you would run out of Rowena Crafting Tokens.

Can no one else see that their argument is just that they refuse to do the mechanic because its not giving them everything they once at the start? I've done favors every week since they've come out and I've already geared a class and a half. At this rate ill have 3-4 classes geared before 3.1. I just don't see how you can scream for more than this.

[seorin]

What you are saying is there is no problem if they released supra and waited until people got it, then allowed you to get it by turning in FC3 instead of MCD without actually having a use for the supra yet.

You mean sort of like Lucis?

What would you say Lucis and T13 gear were useful for? ...and how is current 2 star any different?

Making favors blue scrips is a bad idea, it would absolutely flood the market and everyone would have every item as soon as they could gather all of the materials.

This worked great in 2.0, so I don't see the problem. Even SE said that 2.0 worked well, but later patches ended up too hardcore. When they announced the scrip system, it was supposed to be an additional option to what we already had, not a replacement. I think both systems can and should exist side by side: an uncapped but expensive/grindy version for hardcores, and a cheaper, easier, and slower (but otherwise equivalent) version for more casual players.

My primary issues with the current system are the expense to get red scrip in the first place and the gating of crafting materials behind a weekly limited currency. I didn't enjoy gambling my limited ehcatl sealants to RNG crafts and I enjoy it even less when favors add RNG to the RNG.

any reasonable player would not expect them to nerf the middle of a current grind before those who put in more effort had the chance to reap the benefits of their hard work

The benefits are being first and any associated benefits that go with it, such as selling items for higher prices or simply prestige. That's all the reward ever is. If you get exclusive access to something besides, that's an extra bonus. It's not a guaranteed reward that anyone owes you for slogging through something you didn't like.

Why did so many people grind out zetas or lucis, even knowing the expansion would replace all of it before we even hit 60? Nothing in 2.55 required either. The gear itself is the carrot. Everything else is just a bonus.

[seorin]

Seriously? Pot meet kettle?

Comments like this tell me you've run out of worthwhile arguments. Nonetheless, I hope they fix the system so we can both be happy.

I had pretty much full WVR set done before 3.07 and now I almost have the full LTW set done also. Im about 4 pieces away from being done and moving on to the next set. System seems to be working very fine.

This sounds like, "I got mine, I don't care about anyone else." Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone, and even if it did there's still room for improvement. Some of us are trying to discuss fair ways to make substantial improvements.

You present nothing valuable to the conversation except for your desire to see the system changed for the better

We're discussing how to improve things for everyone and your only contribution is to tell us to shut up or quit because it works already for you, personally. That's some irony.

I got mine. You didn't get yours so you're bad. Everyone else stop talking already. I got mine.

Another valuable contribution.

[Joronas]

The current system is generally good for people who like/enjoy massive grinds.

It's generally awful for people who like to be productive. How many of the favor mats result in farming crystals? Half of them? Maybe more?

But, what I've noticed on the subject of crafting/gathering ... it's really, really polarizing.

Personally, I hate grinding for the sake of grinding. The time chop is ... a start. I'll even say it is a good beginning. It's nowhere near fixed the system. Fixing the system *probably* requires a pretty hefty overhaul. Personally, I wish they had held this all back and put these mats on the airship exploration & gathering missions in addition to the current form all at once. Or done anything other then atma-style grinding in gatherer form.

[MeridaQ]

The problem I see with the new system is that it has turned off so many people who really loved crafting, many of my friends are casual crafters. They enjoyed working up to the end goal of say full artisan set and lucis tools. The current system has removed that joy for them and have quit grinding red scrips.

[Thrustie]

I talk as tho I got a clear understanding of many (not all) perspectives that people in our community will have on (this) topic.
I do. Because I try to understanding perspectives that arent mine.
As is outlined in my arguments. You can always read those, and see for yourself.
I never claim to speak for 100% of the community. But if I bother to make posts like those you can be damned I'll understand most of the (realistic) perspectives involved.
Which I show via my arguments.

On one hand you state you try to understand perspectives that aren't yours. On the other hand you demonstrate that any opinion contrary to yours is treated with derision and dismissed. You behave as if you're the voice of the people but proceed to bully anyone who disagrees with you. Your actions contradict your words.

My ''pedestal'' is made up by my arguments. If you don't want me to look down from on top of them, you should consider actually trying to use solid arguments yourself.
But all you can seem to do is defend a failing system (of crafting, of gathering).

Your pedestal is made up of your arrogance. I've used many solid arguments, including empirical ones. I've stated many times the current yield of favor items is more than enough to utilize all your crafting tokens every week. I have yet to see you provide any evidence to the contrary or even address the point. You say I defend the system but do I? It seems like you lack reading comprehension or, perhaps, only when it's convenient to. I had issues with the length of favors which I have stated numerous times. They fixed that and now I find the favor system acceptable. I've also said the recipes are garbage but I have some hope that they'll introduce some relevant ones in a later patch. However, I'm fine with red scrips (since they changed the turn-in amounts) and I have no problem with the idea of being able to gear up from either using the red crafting tokens directly for gear or, the faster way, using them to get favors. I'm merely objective. I'm ok with many elements of the current systems but I'm not crazy about others. You, however, seem very determined to hate every change that's made to further reinforce your OPINION that the whole system is a "failure".

Yes it is, otherwise you would respond to my individual arguments, instead of responding to my posts in their entirety, and claiming I'm ''on a high horse'' and ''falsely claiming to represent the community''.

How many of your posts have I replied to? 2? 3 maybe? What argument didn't I address?

Ofcourse there are. Just as there are many more who didnt do favors and don't even come on these forums. Only a very small % of people in general use these forums.
That's no argument for your cause, or mine.

My argument isn't based on the desires of the community hence why I don't use words like "everyone" and pretend to know what they all want from the favor system. My argument was only in reference to those of us who have participated in the favor system in its entirety for the past 5 weeks and even then I don't pretend to speak for all of them.

I believe they did diminish it, since it's not a ''fact'' to begin with. Remember favor grinding was a huge grind. I can confidently say that the majority of those that did favor grind before, were pretty hardcore. We have some of the most hardcore players in this game fervently arguing against gathering and crafting in its (previous)/ current state.

Those in opposition of something generally speak the loudest and the most often. I consider myself to be fairly hardcore crafter and I remained mostly silent. I saw flaws in the system but found many of the detractors to be overly zealous.

As someone who actually did spend my tokens, I too felt it would be fair to increase them.
Because the system needed to be changed, and im not selfish enough to screw over the rest of the community for my own selfish desires.
Or for that my matter, to screw myself over. A boost to yield would also effect my own future yields.

Kudos to you. You're a regular martyr. You do realize that the community is also made up of people who did spend their tokens and would perceive increased yield as being screwed?

I mentioned this argument several times, you've yet to properly respond to it even once, why?
- If material yield is increased, then your own future yield is also increased.
You wouldnt lose out, you would gain.

I did respond. I said the yield is fine as it is and I can already use all my tokens with the favor items I gather (as long as I use the roundstones ect. every now and again). It doesn't need to be increased. The other reason I don't want it to be increased? It would render my previous weeks' work as somewhat of a waste. I would have been better off just banking my tokens. And if they had increased the yield, everyone who did bank their tokens is not only ahead of me on the progression curve, they also probably have a whole bunch of spare mats to sell on the market. Would it benefit me going forward? Sure. But I don't believe it's necessary or, even, a good idea. But, most of all, I don't think it's fair for those who have done favors up until this point. We buckled down and did the work for the past 5 weeks so we could stay at the leading edge of crafting progression and I think we should remain in that neighborhood. I'm happy they changed it and I have no problem that those who banked tokens will be able to move up alongside me with far less effort. I just would have been salty if they moved past me.

Ofcourse it would have been better to increase the yield sooner. Did you perchance also read over the parts in previous posts where I said they should have made these adjustments before even letting the system go live?
I guess you did.

I don't believe I ever said otherwise... I'm aware you've detested the system from the very beginning and at no point have I disputed that.

Yes, and apparently a whole lot of people agree with me. Everyone with enough information should, I think.

Many disagree with you as well, including myself. And I've participated in the current system at least as much as you, if not more, so I have plenty of information to go off of.

Where did you read that? Because I would only want an actual good change. As for my tirades, I've made several constructed posts on why the systems are broken.
You are free to disagree with my conclusions, but its hard to argue with the facts I've posted in the past. (lack of recipes, poorly tuned)

I've agreed with some and disagreed with many. Your "facts" are often more biased opinions than actual factual information.

I dont think you can discredit me. Unfortunately you dont respond to arguments, you only attack.


I have a lot of empathy for people that disagree with me. But I don't have much empathy for mules who hit walls 5 times in a row and insist there is no wall in front of them.
If you go out of your way to ''disagree'', while also avoiding responding to arguments; then yes; you wont get much empathy from me.

Pretty blanket statement to make about someone you've barely interacted with. I think we've responded to each other's posts maybe once or twice prior to this but I admire your flair for the dramatic.

[Thrustie]

Comments like this tell me you've run out of worthwhile arguments. Nonetheless, I hope they fix the system so we can both be happy.

You cherry picked the one statement in my entire post that wasn't an argument. The rest of the post detailed why I disagreed with you but, hey, one up for selective reading.