Yoshi P / Dev Team: FAVOR System - Please Fix This BROKEN System

[Hennessy]

LOL since when was Lucis considered "catch up" gear?

It is the best MH tool available to a level 50 crafter or gatherer. Having it meant that you had an advantage when climbing to 60 that those lacking it did not.

That's not catch up gear. That's future-proof gear.

Catch up gear is gear that comes out below the top level, that is easier to get than the leveling set it is replacing. It is gear that helps you get caught up to the top level without going through the big grind that the other alternative required. It is never top of the line gear. It is always gear designed to help you get that top of the line gear.

Sorry wrong choice of words from me =( but I hope it's understood what I meant about comparing gear that comes out right before the dead period leading up to an expansion vs. gear that comes out right after an expansion.

[Ranzan]

Idk what's going on my my server but now the food items are up to 200k each! >_< The hq turn in items are over 300k too. This can't be right cause there are more up there before the patch happen but they are almost double in price.

[Ossom]

You're right, I mean 9 instead of 11. But still you will get roughly 20 Items from Rowena token, after 2 Favors that gives you about 40 items and enough to get 2 2Star materials. So after 9 Favors you have roughly enough for 9 Materials. Anymore is redundant and you can only hold them or sell them which is unnecessary unless you are greedy.

Anyways, I don't mind a debate, but Seorin has actually taken words out of my mouth and placed her words in. She quoted me, removed my text, and put her lying text in, here is an example for you below.

I dislike favors cause they are super duper hard. Ossom is Ossom.

See how annoying and stupid that is.

You guys keep talking about a Fatal Defect or the System being broken or the System needing a change well..

before you hide behind these definitions again why don't you tell us how the system is broken? Because you guys aren't explaining anything.

Crafter Red scrips takes less than an hour each week. Gathering red Scrips takes less than 5 Hours each week. If you don't have enough time for that then you weren't meant to cap it each week, just like if you don't have enough time to raid every week can you really complain about not having it beaten?

[Sibyll]

snip

The system isn't broken because Favors are too time consuming to gather or too gated by the scrip cap. It's broken because it removed tome crafting materials from the economy, which could be acquired by anyone with a DoW/DoM that could cap tomes, without offering a replacement that was as accessible. The Red Scrips require a level 60 DoL with Blue Scrip gear and a crafted HQ MH and OH to get the favor materials and a level 60 DoH to get the crafting materials. For someone that has no crafters/gatherers leveled (which believe it or not many players do not have a single max level DoH/DoL) this type of requirement is enough to deter them from participating.

The scrip system by itself isn't failing. The system just needlessly alienates non-crafters/non-gatherers from the economy completely.

Is this an adequate explanation for why the system is broken?

[Ossom]

The system isn't broken because Red Scrips are too time consuming to gather or too gated by the scrip cap. It's broken because it removed tome crafting materials from the economy, which could be acquired by anyone with a DoW/DoM that could cap tomes, without offering a replacement that was as accessible. The Red Scrips require a level 60 DoL with Blue Scrip gear and a crafted HQ MH and OH to get the favor materials and a level 60 DoH to get the crafting materials. For someone that has no crafters/gatherers leveled (which believe it or not many players do not have a single max level DoH/DoL) this type of requirement is enough to deter them from participating.

The scrip system by itself isn't failing. The system just needlessly alienates non-crafters/non-gatherers from the economy completely.

Is this an adequate explanation for why the system is broken?

Don't even think you mentioned the word Favors. So not really, I don't see how any of that pertains to the Favors needing another nerf? Along with that, that doesn't describe a broken system at all.

Red scrip turn ins requiring a minimum of Blue Scrip gear. Sounds like perfectly reasonable tiering, the same as Alex Normal requiring Law gear and Alex Savage requiring Alex Normal gear. So that isn't much of a fault of the system, it was designed to be that way. (BTW you can buy Gatherer gear from a vendor for pretty cheap if you look around for it).

Tome materials have been pretty much removed from the economy since 2.5. DoW/DoM still have ways to turn dungeons into money though, (through GC seals which are worth more now than ever).

If you expect someone to have the time to cap Red Scrips, then you should expect them to be able to hit a few nodes to get the Blue scrip gear and round up 20K for an NQ Mh/Oh. That's not the system failing at all.

@Seorin Not new, been very avid on the forums, you're the first person to change someones text around though I see, which is a little underhanded if people skim through the forums and see my picture and those words, it looks like I actually said that. Kind of rude IMHO.

Anyways Seorin, still you have yet to explain why Favors need a nerf. I'm fine with you talking about whatever you want, but the circle jerk is annoying.

"Wheres my nerfs SE and 2 Star gear is useless" over and over gets quite old.

One must do Blue Scrips to Unlock Red Scrips, one must do Red Scrips to either slowly unlock gear for their classes, or swiftly gear up their classes in time for 3.1. You have a choice, of course each way has its pros and cons. Removing the cons from one side, negates the effective use of the others, if we started nerfing favors to the point where you could get a full set in a week without having to spend extra time or money then it negates the worth of the Lv180 gear that people have already invested in.

I'm not sure why they didn't include some sort of materials for DoW/DoM to be able to buy with Law tomes, I would be totally for this, but making this the favor items would completely negate the Lv180 gear. If that's the case they should completely get rid of the Lv180 gear, refund everyone and redo the system over. But that's not gonna happen. Nerfing favors anymore though doesn't really help people gear gear any faster because they will still be capped by Rowena Crafting Tokens. I have a bunch of favors in my inventory and still have Red Gathering tokens but I have used up all the Rowena Crafting Tokens from the last 5 weeks. A nerf to favors would just put everyone in this position faster.

[Rath]

Nerfing favors anymore though doesn't really help people gear gear any faster because they will still be capped by Rowena Crafting Tokens. I have a bunch of favors in my inventory and still have Red Gathering tokens but I have used up all the Rowena Crafting Tokens from the last 5 weeks. A nerf to favors would just put everyone in this position faster.

This would affect the amount of mats available for purchase by the pure crafters. As currently they are the worst off due to such a low supply. I do not think this actually warrants a nerf though as it should balance out in time. As more gatherers finish gearing and start selling favors instead of using their tokens for gear the supply will increase. As more of the "rich" crafters finish gearing up, there will be more mats available as they stop buying as well. A nerf right now would essentially just help line the pockets of those currently selling and allow those waiting for lower prices to buy sooner. This does not seem broken to me. It just seems like a new system still in its initial stages.

[Sibyll]

snip

In my opening sentence by Red Scrips I meant Favors (I've edited my post to reflect that). Your whole tiering of gathering gear is irrelevant to what I was getting at. People that were making gil selling tome materials could do so without having a DoL/DoH class at all. Ehcatl Sealants required a level 1 DoH/DoL class and some reputation farming and about 15 mins worth of dailies. Red/Blue scrips requires level 60 DoH/DoLs and a non-trivial amount of time/gil to meet the requirements for not including the time/gil required to cap the scrips.

I'm not saying that Red/Blue Scrips are time consuming for a person that has all level 60 DoH/DoL classes and that enjoys crafting. I'm saying that it's shit design from the stand point of a DoW/DoM player that is looking to make gil off of their excess tomes, BCoB Allagan drops and/or Ixali dailies. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, this portion of the player base is part of the reason why gated materials stay at reasonable prices and allows crafters to keep their products more affordable. When the people that can use the material and the people that can gather the material are the same limited demographic (end-game DoH/DoL) you run into the ridiculous market board prices that you see with Favor materials.

I find the design of Favors baffling because its mindless and brings nothing to the table. We may as well just have Purified Coke cost x2 RGS and x1 RCS, if anything as a QoL improvement.

I don't think Favors need a nerf or a yield buff because I don't think a number tweak will change the flawed design of removing DoW/DoMs from the equation completely. And as you pointed out, making the favor materials or 2* crafting mats acquirable through Law tomes would be terrible because no gatherer would ever spend scrips on favors to get something you could use Law for.

[seorin]

The easiest fix is to move favors to blue scrip and sell favor mats for law. More would be welcome, but we're stuck with temp fixes until the next tier. Hopefully they'll use all this feedback then.

Anyways Seorin, still you have yet to explain why Favors need a nerf. I'm fine with you talking about whatever you want, but the circle jerk is annoying.

lol, ignoring the explanation doesn't mean it was never explained, but keep on raging I guess. If we're so annoying, you're free to stop posting here. Selective reading and anecdotal claims don't add anything.

I'm not sure why they didn't include some sort of materials for DoW/DoM to be able to buy with Law tomes, I would be totally for this

I have yet to see any DoW/DoM complain about not being able to buy mats with their law.

Another anecdotal claim... to argue with yourself? On second thought, please keep posting, this is hilarious. XD

[seorin]

She quoted me, removed my text, and put her lying text in, here is an example for you below.

See how annoying and stupid that is.

Haha, wow, you must be pretty new to forums. I paraphrased a post of yours to show you how it looks to people who don't already agree with you. You're not contributing to the conversation, you're trying to shut it down with a personal anecdote about how much gear you have. That sounds like, "I got mine, so everyone else can stop talking now." If it bothers you that much, either contribute to the conversation or don't participate at all. Just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean we can't.

Also, your claim that "you guys aren't explaining anything" would look better if you weren't completely ignoring my very clear explanation above.

[Ossom]

@Sibyll,

If you are worried about DoW/DoM making money then you're in luck. DoW/DoM are making more money now than they ever were before. DoW/DoM Retainer materials are by far the most expensive, and since DoW/DoM who don't crafter and gather can't level up other retainers their retainers are most likely DoW/DoM.

Along with this GC seals are an easy cash cow. A couple hundred GC seals can turn into 1-3k gil from buying Coke, Peacock Ore and Cordials, and DoW/DoM can easy get a lot of GC seals from Fates and Dungeons where they can get redundant gear. Not sure what any of this has to do with this forum for the Disciples of the Land and/or Favors, the topic of this thread, but if those are your worries, I have yet to see any DoW/DoM complain about not being able to buy mats with their law.