Yoshi P / Dev Team: FAVOR System - Please Fix This BROKEN System

[Ossom]

You cherry picked the one statement in my entire post that wasn't an argument. The rest of the post detailed why I disagreed with you but, hey, one up for selective reading.

Not only that, she has quoted me and changed my words around to make it seem like I have said something I haven't. Can't even have a conversation with her without her getting personal.

It sounds more to me like they wanted to preserve the ability for those with gil to power to the top quickly. They just wanted to add a second option for more casual players. I think they failed at both. Hardcore/wealthy players only get a marginal speed increase, materials are scarce to the point that they're barely being sold at all, and casual players feel more alienated than ever.

Well I've already seen multiple crafters with full HQ sets, and I've seen other crafters going the 180 route. I don't possibly see how they failed at both. How have they failed at both?

[seorin]

Well I've already seen multiple crafters with full HQ sets, and I've seen other crafters going the 180 route.

You see only those who remain, not the ones who have given up. It's called the survivorship bias, and it greatly skews your perspective. Anecdotal information is unreliable and notoriously misleading.

Furthermore, even if it works for some that doesn't mean it works for all or that it can't be improved. If a car has a potentially fatal defect in 5% of those produced, is it not worth addressing because it "works fine" for 95% of them? If someone asked for an option to make visual alerts more distinguishable for colorblind players, would you say "it works fine for me, deal with it or quit"? That kind of comment is unhelpful and disrespectful.

The system is a failure by SE's own claims. They said they wanted crafting to be accessible even for those who can't level all the classes, yet leveling them all is still the easiest part. Anyone without enough time to level multiple classes won't have enough time for red scrip either.

That's a very clear and specific indication of its failure. Do you have anything but anecdotes to support your claim that it's a success?

[Aeyis]

Well I've already seen multiple crafters with full HQ sets, and I've seen other crafters going the 180 route. I don't possibly see how they failed at both. How have they failed at both?

I've yet to see a single crafter with a full HQ set myself. Altho I do know of a few (on different servers) that have the entire left side, or right side. I imagine there's a few out there somewhere with the full set as well.

The fact that you need to point to others as example says enough, however. These people with a full set are those that worked to make it happen.


And they did, finally. ''already'' you say? Its been what, 5 weeks since the release of red scrips? And there are only a few people with full sets and not many more with half sets.

I think this sums this entire thing up nicely. Greed.

I think you assume some strange things after you removed the context. I'm the very opposite of greed. Can't for the live of me make gil when I don't have a purpose to use it for. Can hardly by bothered by anything that I don't have a purpose for, for that matter.
Kind of a result to being somewhat of a victim to sloth. (I'm too lazy)

I must admit it sounds cool tho. ''I think this sums this entire thing up nicely. Greed. '' Kind of like the line a novel or movie character says. But otherwise not related to the discussion at all.

But the funny thing is, the rate is roughly 1 2 Star Materials per Red Rowena Token. This allows you get Roughly 11 2 Star materials a week.

Your numbers are off by a large amount. If you make things up try to be a bit more..subtle about it. There's been too many posts from people with the right amount of estimates to believe you don't really know.
1 Rowena token equal to 1 2* material? And that being equal to 11 materials per week?
There are 9 tokens per week, so obviously 1:9 doesnt suddenly become 1:11.
Further more 1 Rowena token requires atleast 2 gatherers tokens to be used per different type of material. With the best result you can expect to gain enough for 6-7 materials per week.

So 6-7, not 11.

Can no one else see that their argument is just that they refuse to do the mechanic because its not giving them everything they once at the start? I've done favors every week since they've come out and I've already geared a class and a half. At this rate ill have 3-4 classes geared before 3.1. I just don't see how you can scream for more than this.

I've seen nothing to confirm you actually do all of this. If I remember correctly you barely crafted or gathered? Or was that someone else, my memory is kind of poor~
As for doing the favors. I made my servers first off-hand. Which you know, means I probably grinded my worth of favors long before you did.
Therefor the argument ''they refuse to do the mechanic because its not giving them everything they once at the start?'' doesnt really hold when used against me.
Because I did favors before it was cool to say ''I did favors''

And honestly, remember red scrips didnt come out yesterday. If it took you this long to get 1.5 classes equiped that kind of shows how slow even the ''fast alternative'' really is.
Assuming ofcourse by 1.5 classes you are referring to MH, OH, 6 left side pieces, and 5 right side pieces.

Not only that, she has quoted me and changed my words around to make it seem like I have said something I haven't. Can't even have a conversation with her without her getting personal.

Seorin is actually using arguments and proper argumentation. I can understand if you find that a frustrating experience. I do believe you are not alone in that feeling in this thread, as there are others who feel as you do.

[Joronas]

The current system is generally good for people who like/enjoy massive grinds.

It's generally awful for people who like to be productive. How many of the favor mats result in farming crystals? Half of them? Maybe more?

But, what I've noticed on the subject of crafting/gathering ... it's really, really polarizing.

Personally, I hate grinding for the sake of grinding. The time chop is ... a start. I'll even say it is a good beginning. It's nowhere near fixed the system. Fixing the system *probably* requires a pretty hefty overhaul. Personally, I wish they had held this all back and put these mats on the airship exploration & gathering missions in addition to the current form all at once. Or done anything other then atma-style grinding in gatherer form.

[MeridaQ]

The problem I see with the new system is that it has turned off so many people who really loved crafting, many of my friends are casual crafters. They enjoyed working up to the end goal of say full artisan set and lucis tools. The current system has removed that joy for them and have quit grinding red scrips.

[Thrustie]

I talk as tho I got a clear understanding of many (not all) perspectives that people in our community will have on (this) topic.
I do. Because I try to understanding perspectives that arent mine.
As is outlined in my arguments. You can always read those, and see for yourself.
I never claim to speak for 100% of the community. But if I bother to make posts like those you can be damned I'll understand most of the (realistic) perspectives involved.
Which I show via my arguments.

On one hand you state you try to understand perspectives that aren't yours. On the other hand you demonstrate that any opinion contrary to yours is treated with derision and dismissed. You behave as if you're the voice of the people but proceed to bully anyone who disagrees with you. Your actions contradict your words.

My ''pedestal'' is made up by my arguments. If you don't want me to look down from on top of them, you should consider actually trying to use solid arguments yourself.
But all you can seem to do is defend a failing system (of crafting, of gathering).

Your pedestal is made up of your arrogance. I've used many solid arguments, including empirical ones. I've stated many times the current yield of favor items is more than enough to utilize all your crafting tokens every week. I have yet to see you provide any evidence to the contrary or even address the point. You say I defend the system but do I? It seems like you lack reading comprehension or, perhaps, only when it's convenient to. I had issues with the length of favors which I have stated numerous times. They fixed that and now I find the favor system acceptable. I've also said the recipes are garbage but I have some hope that they'll introduce some relevant ones in a later patch. However, I'm fine with red scrips (since they changed the turn-in amounts) and I have no problem with the idea of being able to gear up from either using the red crafting tokens directly for gear or, the faster way, using them to get favors. I'm merely objective. I'm ok with many elements of the current systems but I'm not crazy about others. You, however, seem very determined to hate every change that's made to further reinforce your OPINION that the whole system is a "failure".

Yes it is, otherwise you would respond to my individual arguments, instead of responding to my posts in their entirety, and claiming I'm ''on a high horse'' and ''falsely claiming to represent the community''.

How many of your posts have I replied to? 2? 3 maybe? What argument didn't I address?

Ofcourse there are. Just as there are many more who didnt do favors and don't even come on these forums. Only a very small % of people in general use these forums.
That's no argument for your cause, or mine.

My argument isn't based on the desires of the community hence why I don't use words like "everyone" and pretend to know what they all want from the favor system. My argument was only in reference to those of us who have participated in the favor system in its entirety for the past 5 weeks and even then I don't pretend to speak for all of them.

I believe they did diminish it, since it's not a ''fact'' to begin with. Remember favor grinding was a huge grind. I can confidently say that the majority of those that did favor grind before, were pretty hardcore. We have some of the most hardcore players in this game fervently arguing against gathering and crafting in its (previous)/ current state.

Those in opposition of something generally speak the loudest and the most often. I consider myself to be fairly hardcore crafter and I remained mostly silent. I saw flaws in the system but found many of the detractors to be overly zealous.

As someone who actually did spend my tokens, I too felt it would be fair to increase them.
Because the system needed to be changed, and im not selfish enough to screw over the rest of the community for my own selfish desires.
Or for that my matter, to screw myself over. A boost to yield would also effect my own future yields.

Kudos to you. You're a regular martyr. You do realize that the community is also made up of people who did spend their tokens and would perceive increased yield as being screwed?

I mentioned this argument several times, you've yet to properly respond to it even once, why?
- If material yield is increased, then your own future yield is also increased.
You wouldnt lose out, you would gain.

I did respond. I said the yield is fine as it is and I can already use all my tokens with the favor items I gather (as long as I use the roundstones ect. every now and again). It doesn't need to be increased. The other reason I don't want it to be increased? It would render my previous weeks' work as somewhat of a waste. I would have been better off just banking my tokens. And if they had increased the yield, everyone who did bank their tokens is not only ahead of me on the progression curve, they also probably have a whole bunch of spare mats to sell on the market. Would it benefit me going forward? Sure. But I don't believe it's necessary or, even, a good idea. But, most of all, I don't think it's fair for those who have done favors up until this point. We buckled down and did the work for the past 5 weeks so we could stay at the leading edge of crafting progression and I think we should remain in that neighborhood. I'm happy they changed it and I have no problem that those who banked tokens will be able to move up alongside me with far less effort. I just would have been salty if they moved past me.

Ofcourse it would have been better to increase the yield sooner. Did you perchance also read over the parts in previous posts where I said they should have made these adjustments before even letting the system go live?
I guess you did.

I don't believe I ever said otherwise... I'm aware you've detested the system from the very beginning and at no point have I disputed that.

Yes, and apparently a whole lot of people agree with me. Everyone with enough information should, I think.

Many disagree with you as well, including myself. And I've participated in the current system at least as much as you, if not more, so I have plenty of information to go off of.

Where did you read that? Because I would only want an actual good change. As for my tirades, I've made several constructed posts on why the systems are broken.
You are free to disagree with my conclusions, but its hard to argue with the facts I've posted in the past. (lack of recipes, poorly tuned)

I've agreed with some and disagreed with many. Your "facts" are often more biased opinions than actual factual information.

I dont think you can discredit me. Unfortunately you dont respond to arguments, you only attack.


I have a lot of empathy for people that disagree with me. But I don't have much empathy for mules who hit walls 5 times in a row and insist there is no wall in front of them.
If you go out of your way to ''disagree'', while also avoiding responding to arguments; then yes; you wont get much empathy from me.

Pretty blanket statement to make about someone you've barely interacted with. I think we've responded to each other's posts maybe once or twice prior to this but I admire your flair for the dramatic.

[MeridaQ]

Does that mean they should be denounced for giving up? Are they too casual for "end game" crafting? They play to have fun and they have done much of the previous preHW crafting, but the current red scrip system made them stop because they don't enjoy it. This is why I have issue with the current system and I don't think it was SEs intent to make a system people don't enjoy.

[Thrustie]

Does that mean they should be denounced for giving up? Are they too casual for "end game" crafting? They play to have fun and they have done much of the previous preHW crafting, but the current red scrip system made them stop because they don't enjoy it. This is why I have issue with the current system and I don't think it was SEs intent to make a system people don't enjoy.

I don't think I've said anything of that nature. I was happy they lowered the length of favors and hope it encourages more to participate. Just because I have less issues than some with the new system, doesn't mean I have anything against casual crafting as you put it. But whether it's favors or Supras or Lucis', some will decide it's not worth their time. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be hard to obtain goals for crafters. Whether you like or dislike the way they implemented this one is unique to every individual.

[MeridaQ]

I don't think I've said anything of that nature. I was happy they lowered the length of favors and hope it encourages more to participate. Just because I have less issues than some with the new system, doesn't mean I have anything against casual crafting as you put it. But whether it's favors or Supras or Lucis', some will decide it's not worth their time. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be hard to obtain goals for crafters. Whether you like or dislike the way they implemented this one is unique to every individual.

Hello Thrustie, sorry if it seemed like I was targeting you with my statements. I was not, I was simply making a statement that the whole reason why everyone crafts is because they enjoy it and I know many that don't enjoy the current system. These forums have gotten people too polarized and that just because someone vents/complains either pro or con we shouldn't jump on them. That is why I said my rhetorical questions.

[Thrustie]

I'm sorry! I saw the post as following 2 of mine so I made a somewhat stupid assumption that you were referring to me.

That's a fair statement and I agree, people are going to feel different ways about any system that is implemented but everyone's opinions should be respected. Kinda like the various stages of 2.x relic chain, this can be a very polarizing subject when people are so invested in it.