Normal/Savage Alexander complaint

[Kosmos992k]

The fights do feel different in savage, obviously A1 & 2 are basically the same as they are the starter floors but A3 is a massive step up from the normal mode in terms of mechanics.

And it's not a matter of exclusivity, it's just that clearing one should not a requirement to do the other.

To me the best way would have been to make Law gear I190, clearing Alexander Normal not being a requirement for Alexander Savage and releasing them at the same time. But this has already been and gone now, we will have to see how they handle the next raid.

Perhaps they will allow those who have cleared Alex Savage as it stands to continue to the next part in Savage mode, that would make sense to me, and it would appear to resolve the issue completely by creating literally two separate paths that have the same starting point. If the second part of Alexander requires to be cleared in normal mode before undertaking Savage, even if you have already cleared the first part in Savage mode, that would be a problem in my opinion. I really hope that they maintain the two paths through Alexander separately to provide the raid experience for raiders and the less demanding experience for everyone else.

high skill players should be rewarded for their skill.

That's what the top tier gear drops are for, unless I am mistaken.

they should earn that storyline and earn that final fight with the big boss.

everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode.

Why? So you can be a special snowflake (to quote the usual Forum response)? Seriously though, why do you think you should get some special story elements all to yourself, even on a timed exclusivity, when you are already being rewarded with gear that those other players will likely never see, except on someone else.

Saying "everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode" about some content in a story driven game sounds pretty entitled, especially as you are clearly rewarded with the raid gear and additional achievement/titles in game. If the story is completely optional and has no bearing on the main story, then it's less of an issue to me, but if the story ties into the main story line, it should never be gated by real raid content.

[Miscreant]

Perhaps they will allow those who have cleared Alex Savage as it stands to continue to the next part in Savage mode, that would make sense to me, and it would appear to resolve the issue completely by creating literally two separate paths that have the same starting point. If the second part of Alexander requires to be cleared in normal mode before undertaking Savage, even if you have already cleared the first part in Savage mode, that would be a problem in my opinion. I really hope that they maintain the two paths through Alexander separately to provide the raid experience for raiders and the less demanding experience for everyone else.

I completely agree with you on this

snip

If they had just made Law gear i190 and us not needing an Alexander Normal clear to do Savage we wouldn't have had the choice over whether we spoil Savage's fights with normal or not, but that's retrospect for you.

[Nekodar]

If they had just made Law gear i190 and us not needing an Alexander Normal clear to do Savage we wouldn't have had the choice over whether we spoil Savage's fights with normal or not, but that's retrospect for you.

If they had made upgraded law gear and alexander normal gear the same ilevel, noone would run normal more than once. Which would result in people that don't do it right away have less chance of actually clearing it...
Having it better creates incentive for people to actually do it more than once.

[Miscreant]

If they had made upgraded law gear and alexander normal gear the same ilevel, noone would run normal more than once. Which would result in people that don't do it right away have less chance of actually clearing it...
Having it better creates incentive for people to actually do it more than once.

Thats how Eso and Savage gear works now, both are i210, doesn't any different to make Law Tome gear match Alexander Normal gear. But this has already been and gone now.

[Nekodar]

Thats how Eso and Savage gear works now, both are i210, doesn't any different to make Law Tome gear match Alexander Normal gear. But this has already been and gone now.

Eso is i200, with upgrade to i210 possible by getting items currently only found in Savage alexander. Both eso and savage is capped.
Law tome and upgrades are uncapped. Alexander normal is capped.
It would make a huge difference if upgraded law tome gear was same ilevel as alex normal.

[Miscreant]

Eso is i200, with upgrade to i210 possible by getting items currently only found in Savage alexander. Both eso and savage is capped. Law tome and upgrades are uncapped. Alexander normal is capped.
It would make a huge difference if upgraded law tome gear was same ilevel as alex normal.

Well we upgrade Law with hunts, have it drop at 180 then upgrade it to 190, it's still the same as Eso, you buy Eso with the intention of it being 210 before long. The gap between 180 and 190 gear out side of progression is redundant, everything can be nuked in 170 as it is. People complain about their not being enough horizontal progression as well, this doesn't necessarily fix it, but it contributes towards solving the problem.

I'm not really sure if you have the experience to talk about how upping law gear by 10 ilevels would affect the balance of the game, 190+ and you still haven't killed Ravana, we did that in Law gear, not even the upgraded Law at that...thats still the hardest non raid content in the game, so please tell me again how Law being i190 would unbalance the game.

Even then this has all been and gone now, Alexander Savage and Normal are out, we've already seen the bosses and the basic mechanics of the raid and you can't take it back. I just hope that for the next set of Alexander raids that clearing the previous Savage is the entry requirement, not clearing the normal mode; and that our 210 gear from clearing this Savage is the minimum gear requirement as opposed to the new normal giving 220.

Outside of this issue though, I have been really enjoying Savage I just feel it could have been handled better, and from the responses in this thread it seems quite a few people running it have somewhat similar opinions, even if they may differ slightly in places. I'm not crying about nerfing anything, I'm just saying I want my progression to surprise me tell me the story and to not have it watered down by content thats an absolute face roll.

[SendohJin]

That's what the top tier gear drops are for, unless I am mistaken.

Why? So you can be a special snowflake (to quote the usual Forum response)? Seriously though, why do you think you should get some special story elements all to yourself, even on a timed exclusivity, when you are already being rewarded with gear that those other players will likely never see, except on someone else.

i'm not even on that top end and because they deserve it and they earned it.

the gear doesn't always drop and the gear isn't that special. the stats are on the same level as Eso stuff which everyone will get to upgrade in 3.1, the look is the same as the story content, except you can change the color. there's more to the game than just loot. why are you making everything about loot?

you value loot way too much if you think the most skilled players rewarded with only loot is enough.

why do you feel entitled to all of the story content at the same time as people who obviously put in much more effort? i didn't even suggest to deny anyone content, even slowing it downs bother you cause you didn't put in the effort? who is really the entitled one here? who is really the one obsessing over gear?

Saying "everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode" about some content in a story driven game sounds pretty entitled, especially as you are clearly rewarded with the raid gear and additional achievement/titles in game. If the story is completely optional and has no bearing on the main story, then it's less of an issue to me, but if the story ties into the main story line, it should never be gated by real raid content.

the story is completely optional. the Alex story is not part of the main story line and neither was Coil, neither has any bearing on the main storyline. so you're agreeing it is less of an issue?

[Kosmos992k]

the gear doesn't always drop and the gear isn't that special. the stats are on the same level as Eso stuff which everyone will get to upgrade in 3.1, the look is the same as the story content, except you can change the color. there's more to the game than just loot. why are you making everything about loot?

I'm not, every raider I have ever met on the other hand has made it clear that it's about loot. The message received loud and clear on many, many occasions is that they do it for the gear. You've been here long enough to remember all the discussions about Savage coil, it boiled down to no new drops = no reason to do it.

you value loot way too much if you think the most skilled players rewarded with only loot is enough.

Perhaps you should read my post again, I believe I referenced dedicated teams such as BG in the context of them doing a savage mode Alex whether or not it had better gear drops. The point being that those dedicated and skilled players do it for the challenge, to beat the challenge, to them the gear is nothing more than a means to an end.

why do you feel entitled to all of the story content at the same time as people who obviously put in much more effort?

I paid for that story as much as you did, so why should I not get it? Placing story elements behind top tier raids in a story based, paid subscription MMORPG is a poor way to do business and screws over the majority of players in the game. I think most would recognize that those players will never set foot in the top tier raid content.

i didn't even suggest to deny anyone content, even slowing it downs bother you cause you didn't put in the effort?

Slowing it down? If it's gated behind savage mode Alexander, it's unlikely anyone but raiders will ever see it; just as the only way 80+% (this is a guesstimate) of the players will ever see the Coil story elements is via You Tube.

who is really the entitled one here? who is really the one obsessing over gear?

In order, you are and raiders obsess over gear.

Good god, one look at my Lodestone should tell you that I am most certainly not gear obsessed.

the story is completely optional. the Alex story is not part of the main story line and neither was Coil, neither has any bearing on the main storyline. so you're agreeing it is less of an issue?

Shall I quote my own post?

Saying "everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode" about some content in a story driven game sounds pretty entitled, especially as you are clearly rewarded with the raid gear and additional achievement/titles in game. If the story is completely optional and has no bearing on the main story, then it's less of an issue to me, but if the story ties into the main story line, it should never be gated by real raid content.

As I said in my quoted remarks, if the story elements are not part of, and do not relate to, the main story, and are completely optional, then yes it is less of a problem, though it is still problematic IMHO.

You know, it's really funny to me, for nearly two years the arguments over raid content centered around raiders being pissed off because it was possible to gear up to near equivalents of their Allagan and High Allagan gear through alternate means a patch or two after whichever part of coil was released. The discussion revolved around how freaking important it was to raiders to have gear in the raid being unique to them and only available to them. That's the context here. But now, it seems that the argument has morphed into the gear being unimportant? And now it's the story you really desire? Or perhaps you want the gear and the story?

I don't give two craps about raiding gear, I don't raid. I do care about the story and lore in the game. Gating story and/or lore behind difficult content (difficult enough to guarantee most players will never experience it) does not serve the audience of the game. But now, based on your line of argument it seems that actually it's not about the gear, it's about raiders having their own segment of content that is exclusively theirs unless it's nerfed at some point in the future, by which time no one will be running it anyway. You are the one wanting to maintain exclusivity of content to a specific group. I am the one arguing for story elements to be accessible to all.

[SendohJin]

I paid for that story as much as you did, so why should I not get it? Placing story elements behind top tier raids in a story based, paid subscription MMORPG is a poor way to do business and screws over the majority of players in the game. I think most would recognize that those players will never set foot in the top tier raid content.

Slowing it down? If it's gated behind savage mode Alexander, it's unlikely anyone but raiders will ever see it; just as the only way 80+% (this is a guesstimate) of the players will ever see the Coil story elements is via You Tube.

that's not what i said at all. slowing it down means normal mode comes out in 3.1.

i never said anything that would imply that it would be gated behind Savage. so everyone will get to see it, everyone gets what they paid for.