AST Sect Theory

[Apeiron]

Didn't expect to see this thread back, haha. Good to see more replies, though (even if it irritates some others). Amiaze, I'm going to work backwards on your post, so forgive me if I miss something.

Edit: In response to your remark on nobody refuting your numbers, I'll admit that I won't try to. I don't know all the numbers personally. Nor do I think that you really need to. You can, but looking at basic potencies and ability rules should be enough. If not, then there's always the tried-and-true method: put it to the test in and endgame raid and see how well it goes.

Potencies need to be looked at now, anyways, but there's no real need to refute them. On paper, the numbers I've posted up are pretty sound given their scenarios they're included in. The problem comes from application, which leads me to the next part of your post:

You could always try running with WHM in Diurnal Sect and SCH in Nocturnal Sect, but you'll find that your roles overlap far too much. AST was meant to be a more flexible answer to the WHM/WHM and SCH/SCH combo problem, and should be treated as such. It has the ability to cover the weaknesses of both classes, so why not use the ability properly?

Yes, I could, and in-point-of-fact I will. I created this thread back when my AST was lv52-53, and I had not yet completed the MSQ to unlock Alexander. It was an attempt to elicit more talks about methods to play the AST by posing the hypothesis and letting available Alexander players try it. From what I'd read, the primary opinion was (and pretty much still is) that unless you're running dungeons or other content outside of raids, the AST should never be outside of Diurnal Sect. I disliked that opinion, as it relegated the AST to WHM Jr. (in which case why ever bring an AST?) and left an entire mechanic (the Sects, more specifically Nocturnal Sect) untouched by the players to figure out all of its shortcomings, and ways to make it work.

I'm happy to say my AST is 58, pushing 59, and my next move is to recruit (or be recruited) and test out my hypothesis to see where, and under what conditions, it breaks.

I did consider the overlap in roles; however, I looked at it from the standpoint of capitalizing on your healer's strengths (regens/lots a single target heals) as with WHM/Diurnast you'd have plenty of ticking regens that could leave healers to do other necessary things, and with SCH/Noctast you'd have effectively 3 healers capable of responding to mechanics differently, but ultimately working towards the same end (Succor, Divine Wind, and Helios in tandem).

One of the reasons your theory cannot be fully supported was mentioned way earlier in this thread. Nocturnal Sect's shields overwriting SCH's buffs automatically makes one of their shielding abilities pointless unless the healers have perfect coordination over Teamspeak or something. For that sort of effort, why not just go to Diurnal Sect?

I very much think that we should be treating AST as a WHM or SCH Jr, and this can easily be seen in combat. I'll use Nael deus Darnus as an example.

WHM can easily heal the party to full, even if they take Lunar Dynamo by mistake (assuming that it didn't outright kill them). Would AST helping with proactive heals be helpful? Yes, because it would mean that WHM would have to heal less -- but because WHM's healing potency is already so high, you would then risk overhealing, anyway, making one of the healers waste MP. It would be more preferable that the party be shielded throughout the fight so that WHM doesn't have to spend so much MP healing in the first place.

Now, let's use A4 as a second example. There is a lot of unavoidable splash damage in that fight. Would shields be preferable? Likely, yes. But, because SCH's shields cannot work with ASTs, you won't be doubling up on shields any time soon. So let's say the AST was in Diurnal Sect with a WHM. The healing output would be amazing, but again, you'd run the risk of overhealing and wasting MP. The problem with having two WHMs in later Coils was that the damage output was very high, and eventually, one of them would run out of MP if the run wasn't going smoothly. The other would follow suit. The problem with having dual SCHs was that the reactive healing just wasn't really there. They were meant to mitigate damage, not heal through it.

If a WHM were to run out of MP during a raid, then having AST in Diurnal Sect would be great...except for the fact that if they started in Nocturnal Sect, the point is now moot. I think that it was for situations like this that AST received healing buffs. This way, your party isn't SoL when a WHM runs out of MP. If you had a SCH run out before the AST, and you were in Nocturnal Sect, you might be able to argue that their pet could help out with the healing while you shielded...but, inevitably, you would just be waiting for the SCH's health to regen. And God forbid your party take a heavy AoE. If you're in an 8-man-raid, it won't be as easy to heal through that.

That's not to say that either combo is impossible, but it is noticeably more difficult to pull off until you have said content on farm.

I particularly enjoyed this chunk of text. Especially because you used both sects in your examples instead of singling out Nocturnal. Thank you for this They're more of what I was expecting (hoping, really) to get from some of the more seasoned healers.

I still dislike the argument that more communication is required, though. Is it really that much more communication? Having two healers who understand, and have researched, the fight and noting at what times they might both need to use shields shouldn't really require more communication. And with something like Teamspeak, why would a simple phrase like "shields" or, perhaps more appropriate "Helios" require more coordination?

If I've missed anything, let me know. Pressed for time, atm, so I don't think I covered everything I wanted.