Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

[Lilyth]

Yeah which makes sense since getting GL3 as quick as possible is the most important part of our job. So opening with SP then PB means that any gcd or ogcd AFTER PB will be buff vs starting a fight with PB right of te batt mean we're delaying our GL.

There's absolutely zero delay if you start with PB (instead of ST). You get GL3 at the exact same speed.

And even if you do ST first, PB animation is too short to affect your DPS in any meaningful way.

[Hitoseijuro]

There's absolutely zero delay if you start with PB (instead of ST). You get GL3 at the exact same speed.

And even if you do ST first, PB animation is too short to affect your DPS in any meaningful way.

That's the third time you miss what is being discussed, thankfully Butcherboy read what was being discussed. Nothing was mentioned about PB animation in his post. Hes referring to what I have been discussing this whole time, about starting your PB rotation either with 1 GL stack vs NO GL stack. That 1 extra stack adds to the next 2 or 3 GCDs depending on how youre going to set up your opener.

[Lilyth]

That's the third time you miss what is being discussed, thankfully Butcherboy read what was being discussed. Nothing was mentioned about PB animation in his post. Hes referring to what I have been discussing this whole time, about starting your PB rotation either with 1 GL stack vs NO GL stack. That 1 extra stack adds to the next 2 or 3 GCDs depending on how youre going to set up your opener.

I'm afraid you are quite missing my point as well. He was referring to the speed in which you attain GL3, and that's precisely what I've addressed in my post.

Regarding the starting your PB rotation with NO GL vs 1 GL subject, this is irrelevant if you ignore the short PB animation. You will start with 0 stacks in **both** rotations before hitting the boss with your first Demo/SP. The only difference is that you use PB first instead of FS.

Anyway, perhaps I'm not being entirely clear. Hope someone explains better than I did.

[Butcherboy]

I'm not talking about the animation delay what so ever. What I'm trying to get my across is SP(gl1) that's 10% dmg bonus right there followed by PB, then SP again (gl2) but not only that, it's also buff by the first SP. Where as (again not talking about animation delay) starting with PB then SP (gl1), so pretty much your delaying gaining GL stack vs SP PB your starting with everything else with stacks.

[Hitoseijuro]

I'm afraid you are quite missing my point as well. He was referring to the speed in which you attain GL3, and that's precisely what I've addressed in my post.

Regarding the starting your PB rotation with NO GL vs 1 GL subject, this is irrelevant if you ignore the short PB animation. You will start with 0 stacks in **both** rotations before hitting the boss with your first Demo/SP. The only difference is that you use PB first instead of FS.

This is what im discussing:

I think sunny's proposed coerl quad opener(I filled in blanks im sure he may come up with something different)
Snap -> PB -> snap-> demo -> (b4b)snap ->(xpot)DK-->(IR) tws--> elixir field--> ToD --> chakra --> Boot--> Howling--> True --> Steel --> Demo
189 -> 207.9 --> 311.85(demo clipped) -> 270.27 (979.02)-> 225.225 --> 236.48625 --> 408. 783375-->450.074625 -->613.1750625--> 278.7159375--> 315.8780625 --> 353.0401875--> 278.7159375 --> 592.5294375 = 4731.643875

Hakmatic theorized rotation with 2.0 opener + fracture:
PB- > demo--snap-->snap-> b4b DK -->(xpot) tws-- >(ir) ToD--> Elixir field --> Boot--> Chakra-->True-->Howling --> Demo--> Steel --> Fracture

283.5(Demo clipped) -> 207.9 --> 226.8 -> 225.225(943.425) --> 236.48625--> 450.074625--> 408.783375 --> 278.7159375 --> 613.1750625 --> 353.0401875 --> 315.8780625--> 592.5294375-->278.7159375--> 382.370625 = 4853.1945

3.0 standard:
Demo--> PB-->snap-->b4bsnap-->(xpot) DK-->(IR) Tws-->Steel->Snap-->Howling --> ToD -> Elixir --> Boot--> chakra--> True--> Demo

367.5--> 207.9 --> 249.48-->225.225(1049.205) --> 236.48625 -->278.7159375 -->334.459125-->315.8780625-->450.074625-->408.783375 -->278.7159375-->613.1750625--> 353.0401875 --> 592.5294375 = 4911.603

This is the first 10 gcds only. As each rotation goes on, there could be a difference in which is better due to when buffs timers are up again and which abilities they hit, but no fight is in a vaccum of time, and thus there are breaks in fights and the fight eventually ends and where it ends in your GCD row plays a small role too, but averages out over extended amounts of fights.

Anyways as you can see, the one that starts off with going 1 gcd before PB was stronger than going PB using hakmatic's rotation. Thats all I was hinting at I even put the first 4 in parentheses that I was talking about to show the potency difference and obviously the final result. He was asking about a buff Snap vs a buff Fracture.

I have yet to see how Ossom's rotation pans out, but he has 13 gcds in that rotation, so I would need to extend the other 3 examples by 3 more gcds. I'm just waiting to see if he is going to add anything to it as I know he wanted to get his xpot in for demo iirc.

[Hakmatic]

I need to start playing monk again, been too long.

[SunnyHirose]

This is what im discussing:

I think sunny's proposed coerl quad opener(I filled in blanks im sure he may come up with something different)
Snap -> PB -> snap-> demo -> (b4b)snap ->(xpot)DK-->(IR) tws--> elixir field--> ToD --> chakra --> Boot--> Howling--> True --> Steel --> Demo
189 -> 207.9 --> 311.85(demo clipped) -> 270.27 (979.02)-> 225.225 --> 236.48625 --> 408. 783375-->450.074625 -->613.1750625--> 278.7159375--> 315.8780625 --> 353.0401875--> 278.7159375 --> 592.5294375 = 4731.643875

I can say Snap comes next, I can say clipping Demolish so early is bad, I can link a video. I've done all these things, and people still come up with this.

Frustrating!

[Hitoseijuro]

I can say Snap comes next, I can say clipping Demolish so early is bad, I can link a video. I've done all these things, and people still come up with this.

Frustrating!

I wasn't attacking nor criticizing your comment on doing a quad opener if thats what you were implying, if you feel that way, I'm sorry. I wanted to add that in there just to see where it was at with everything else thrown in. And see what needed to be worked, and yes replacing demo with snap and then the next rotation having demo would be much better, I didnt really look into that, hence why I said youd do something different. I commented that I was only comparing hakmatic's rotation vs 3.0 standard anyhow.

[Lilyth]

Snip.

Now we're getting somewhere. Take a look at the last two rotations you posted, ignoring OGCd since they are the same in both cases.

A) (PB) demo --> snap--> snap--> DK--> Tws--> ToD--> Boot-->True--> Demo (clipped)--> Fracture


B) Demo---> (PB) snap--> snap--> DK--> Tws--> Snap--> ToD -> Boot--> True--> Demo

The only difference between the two is that in one you have "Fracture" and in the other you have an extra "Snap Puch". That's it.
Since Fracture is stronger than Snap punch, the first rotation should have been the most optimal, but that's not the case solely because Demo gets clipped, and this pushes "B" slightly ahead of "A".
The GL0 vs GL1 is irrelevant here since, as you can see, in both cases you get GL3 up at the same time. The third Snap Punch in "B" is only there to refresh GL3 while also giving you another GCD so that you do not clip Demo like in "A".

So yes, I can agree that "B" is (slightly) better than "A" because of the clipping, but i'm not exactly using "A". I've been trying this opening where instead of using Demo with 5 seconds left (thus clipping it), I do a SP and use Demo in the next rotation. It's not a perfectly perfect refresh, but Demo falls off right after I hit twin Snakes so it's a very decent one with no clipping.

(PB) Demo--> snap--> snap--> DK--> Tws--> ToD--> Boot-->True--> Snap--> DK--> Tws -> Demo

But yeah, so far I've been just messing around with a lot of rotations and I'm sure the absolute best will come out at some point. Anyway, I can hit around 1320 dps very consistently (ilvl 191, no buffs) with this one so I'm pretty happy with it.

[Contradiction]

But yeah, so far I've been just messing around with a lot of rotations and I'm sure the absolute best will come out at some point. Anyway, I can hit around 1320 dps very consistently (ilvl 191, no buffs) with this one so I'm pretty happy with it.

I suppose the brain teaser, or the "optical illusion", is that it's easy to start thinking that GL stacks build up faster if you start in coeurl form. In reality, there is no difference when PB is involved.

So the difference in DPS is not attributed to the rate at which GL stacks build up. As you say the only time difference is the PB animation at the start which is supposedly negligible.