Why not just make everyone a DPS?

[Yorumi]

Its as if improving stats outside of the tomestone blues is a noob trap.

It's mostly lazy stat design. I mentioned already in this thread how we have elemental resist, parry, vit and all are useless. SE didn't bother to really diversify the stats at all. Replace str,dex,int,mnd with just a stat called damage, if you did that everyone's gear would look almost 100% identical. There arn't healing stats or tank stats in this game, just dps stats.

[Phoenicia]

It's mostly lazy stat design. I mentioned already in this thread how we have elemental resist, parry, vit and all are useless. SE didn't bother to really diversify the stats at all. Replace str,dex,int,mnd with just a stat called damage, if you did that everyone's gear would look almost 100% identical. There arn't healing stats or tank stats in this game, just dps stats.

Merging STR, DEX, INT and MND into 1 stat wouldn't a problem. TERA for example had normalized stats. EVERYONE (tanks, healers, melee, ranged and caster DPS) used "Power" as a main stat and Endurance for defense. Yet that game managed to make diversity sought after and different builds for the same classes existed. Warriors liked a variety of attack speed and power or crit focus, while Slayers favored speed to a lesser extent and focused more on crit. Berserkers wanted power and crit. This is along with other stats like increased enmity %, increased healing done %, increased healing received %, knockdown resistance, MP/HP regen or whatever other stats existed in that game. Stats weren't linear and had caps to how much you can have. And each stat benefited different classes differently.

This game has no variety as there is only 1 mathematically optimal build which happens to be the same on all classes. Weapon Damage > Main Stat > Crit > Determination > Speed. So you end up with everyone, whether they're DPS, tanks or healers, going for the exact same stat builds. Stats are also linear with no caps or diminishing returns, so you just go for the maximum mix of all of them. This is where this game mainly fails. This problem is even worse when you have healers and tanks benefiting MORE for having DPS stats. There is no healer stat that healers would want since the same DPS stats affect heals. There is no tank-specific stats (outside of parry) that affect tanking. Tanks aggro issues are solved with DPS stats. Tanks survivability even benefits more with more DPS stats. Remember when STR increased Parry and Block values? Heck, all three tanks heal themselves far more by having more DPS stats.

[Yorumi]

This problem is even worse when you have healers and tanks benefiting MORE for having DPS stats. There is no healer stat that healers would want since the same DPS stats affect heals. There is no tank-specific stats (outside of parry) that affect tanking. Tanks aggro issues are solved with DPS stats. Tanks survivability even benefits more with more DPS stats. Remember when STR increased Parry and Block values? Heck, all three tanks heal themselves far more by having more DPS stats.

That's exactly my point the devs just gave everyone the same stats and called it a day.

[Risvertasashi]

This game has no variety as there is only 1 mathematically optimal build which happens to be the same on all classes. Weapon Damage > Main Stat > Crit > Determination > Speed. So you end up with everyone, whether they're DPS, tanks or healers, going for the exact same stat builds. Stats are also linear with no caps or diminishing returns

There is so much wrong with this. Crit has diminishing returns and isn't the most optimal off stat for all jobs.

I don't disagree with the general spirit of your post but do be careful with the facts you lay down.

force crits benefit far more

For guaranteed crits, jobs actually benefit less from the crit stat and more from det (since det raises the damage from the guaranteed crit). Now there's some debate about whether det is actually worth it but it is an argument that some MNKs (for example) make.

There is no actual diminishing return as in each point of crit gives exactly the same % of crit chance, this doesn't change no matter how high you go in crit. The stat value doesn't change and each point is as good as the previous one. Crit is as linear as any other stat in this game.

I was about to say this isn't consistent with data I've seen but it seems the theorycrafting subreddit has disappeared O.o Well... guess I'll just wait until the Heavensward numbers are in a verify if crit diminishes or not.

[Phoenicia]

There is so much wrong with this. Crit has diminishing returns and isn't the most optimal off stat for all jobs.

I don't disagree with the general spirit of your post but do be careful with the facts you lay down.

There is no actual diminishing return as in each point of crit gives exactly the same % of crit chance, this doesn't change no matter how high you go in crit. The stat value doesn't change and each point is as good as the previous one. Crit is as linear as any other stat in this game.

The "diminishing return" people talk about is due to forced crits from things like Bootshine/Life Surge and crit buffs like Internal Release and Abandon, etc. This affects crit stat weight, not crit's % chance per point.

[Reynhart]

There is no actual diminishing return as in each point of crit gives exactly the same % of crit chance, this doesn't change no matter how high you go in crit.

That's exatcly why it's considered a "diminishing return".
If you need 100 for 5%, going from 100 to 200 actually doubles your ctitical hit rate while going from 200 to 300 only increase you chance by 50%.
It's also why Skillspeed/Spellspeed have an increasing returns since 0.1s weights "more" when you have 2.0 GCD than when you have 2.5.

[Phoenicia]

That's exatcly why it's considered a "diminishing return".
If you need 100 for 5%, going from 100 to 200 actually doubles your ctitical hit rate while going from 200 to 300 only increase you chance by 50%.
It's also why Skillspeed/Spellspeed have an increasing returns since 0.1s weights "more" when you have 2.0 GCD than when you have 2.5.

Yeah, that doesn't change the linear nature of how stats increase per point. It just means the increase is linear but the benefit is "diminishing".

Every stat increase increases damage by a less % of the point before. (When you have 100, increasing it by 1 is 1%, but when you have 200, increasing it by 1 is only 0.5%). This is true for all stats with the exception of Skill/Spell Speed.

The "diminishing returns" I was thinking of was that stats increase with a formula with a denominator. For example in League of Legends, armor decreases the damage at a rate of "armor / (100+armor)". Each point reduces damage less than the previous. You get a non-linear (it's a curve opening upwards) graph that closes to, but never reaching, 0. Though the benefit is linear (each point increases eHP by 1%), the effect of each point is "diminishing". At 1 you reduce damage by 1%, at 2 you reduce damage by 1.96% (each point averaged 0.98) and at 3 you reduce damage by 2.91% (average 0.97) and so on. At 100 armor you reduce damage by 50% (each point averaged 0.5%) increasing eHP by 100%. This made it so it is equally important to build HP as well as armor/magic resist to efficiently increase survivability as you had only 6 slots for items.

With disregard of semantics. My whole point is, in here, you end up with a linear approach of "More x stat is always better" and you have no point where you should "stop" building that stat in favor of another stat for added efficiency. Or if that point exists, it is far beyond our gear's reach (Current and future patches').

[Reynhart]

Every stat increase increases damage by a less % of the point before.

Yet, but only critical rate is an actual percentage.

Even in case of "diminishing returns" more stats is still better. It's just that, at low values, Crit will probably have more impact than DET and at higher value, the gap will only increases more and more and favoring DET.

It takes roughly 430 additional crit in gear to increase that rate by 0.1%.

Really ?!
Suddendly, it sounds almost as useless as focusing on parry...

[Reynhart]

Merging STR, DEX, INT and MND into 1 stat wouldn't a problem.

Agree for STR and DEX, but not for INT and MND other since several jobs can use healing and attacking spells in their toolkit.