Enjoy Summoner before it gets nerfed...

[RiceisNice]

...

LB is LB. I'm not sure how you're gonna compare an LB to burst damage from skills. It takes time to build (versus having available at start then a cooldown), it more or less carries the same risk as any other burst, as well as any risks being associated with a melee class.

A lot of those cons and risks from failure aren't exclusive to summoner's burst. A heal can render any burst unable to kill. All classes are tied to cooldowns like RS or B4B to be at maximum efficiency (except the latter is also a liability for you to get wrecked, so I don't even use that half the time as a MCH). Being able to pump out the skills reliably on 1 minute cooldown (if you omit raging strikes) is still more frequent than MCH or BRD who has 90 seconds (which again, omits their buffs but uses their effective burst damage skills)

[Akiza]

Only time Summoner Bursts is deadly is when that one Dragoon or Warrior tries to be ramboo and attack a flag with an entire team there and die. I do it all the time use myslef as bait and some idiot Dragoon or Warrior follows me back to my team then I bursts them down.

[Fyce]

LB is LB. I'm not sure how you're gonna compare an LB to burst damage from skills.

How are you going to use a comparison of your burst to melee lb to defend the fact your class isn't overpowered?

You won't kill a Battle high enemy with the SMN burst, because a Battle high enemy will be under healer's care.
You need a stronger burst to do that, and the only answer is melee LB.

I'm sorry but since melee LB is relevant and is not as 'special' as you might think it is, saying that SMN has the best burst in PvP is just completly wrong.
Go on and say that I'm arguing sementics, but that won't change the fact that the SMN burst is not the strongest burst in PvP. SE making special PvP LB also support my point.

A melee LB is one dead body on the ground, 5 more points for your alliance, and 5 less to the enemy. SMN's burst is far from achieving this since people already started to hard counter (and focus) SMN in PvP, especially healers how know how to react.

[Stuff I never said]

This is completly moot as I never said that these drawbacks were exclusive to SMN. I was just saying that, no, the SMN burst is not a 100% "I kill what I target every time" combo.
That dude was way over-exagerating this burst to be instant, the strongest in PvP and without any risks or penalty.

He was basically saying that the SMN had some sort of godly power to kill everyone at will, when a single heal can completly shut them down in reality (which is the reason why I stopped playing SMN in SR).

[Dimitrii]

Only time Summoner Bursts is deadly is when that one Dragoon or Warrior tries to be ramboo and attack a flag with an entire team there and die. I do it all the time use myslef as bait and some idiot Dragoon or Warrior follows me back to my team then I bursts them down.

You've got guts doing this. If a summoner tries to "bait" any melee they risk getting stunned by a gap closer and having the opposing team collapse on them. Not all melees are stupid like this thread would leave you to believe. Some melee will take the risk if a smn puts themselves out there and shoulder tackle/shatterspine dive you oftentimes because they have marked you (though obviously being on the opposing team you cannot see this) and are banking on their teammates collapsing on you like a pack of lions pouncing on a wounded gazelle lol. Even worse would be if they kamikaze you and fetterward + stun + lb one shot you just because they enjoy the satisfaction they get from killing a smn regardless of whether or not they survive immediately after that smn's book hits the floor. Summoner atm is a very high priority kill target second only to heals so I'd leave the baiting to my tanks personally if it were me. I'm of course assuming you mean baiting opposing melee from an engaging opposing team towards ur team because no sane smn would attempt to go out solo and try to engage a stray melee and lead them back to their team.

[QCrimson]

when a single heal can completly shut them down

Same with the melee lb, it must not be that powerful then amirite ?

[RiceisNice]

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A single heal sets back any one shot combo/burst, including melee Lb if we're factoring damage shields and boosted hp. Realistically speaking, no burst can be a true one-shot if people are being babysat by healers. My (and possibly other) perspectives on it is that SMN's burst is relatively safe due to the instance compared to that of a melee's (even their LB), it has the lowest effective cooldown (anywhere from 1 minute just for aetherflow/tri disaster, to 3 minutes if we're factoring buffs). It's not so much that it's unstoppable or a guaranteed kill, but it's pretty damn ridiculous in perspective of what other classes can do and the risks/variables associated with them.

If we want to group melee LB to SMN burst, then ok. Melee objective does more damage than SMN's in a single hit. You're still not killing anyone whose being babysat by healers and damage shields without coordinated focus fire, omnitting all the risks and countermeasures to the fact that you still need to be in melee range and that it can be interrupted. Even if this is the case, outside of all those circumstance,s SMN burst is still one of the most potent ones behind melee LB with the least strings and risks attached to it, which is pretty damn important for dog fights in seal rock or pressuring/shooting down an individual within a group.

[Monoman]

All this talk about limit breaks is ridiculous. Melee lb is the highest single target dps, ranged lb is the highest ranged dps, tank lb is the best party wide damage reduction ability, healer lb is the best party wide restoration ability, and all of which come from a pooled resource for an entire party. These abilities are the absolute height of their respective roles and are used situationally so they should not be factored into any individual class' abilities. The effectiveness of lbs should only be compared to each other.

What I'm saying is, these abilities belong to the party and not the individual who uses it.

[morerancor]

Do you understand how much more powerful caster lb is on the long run? Those 20 plus kills 500k damage kills, are a result of smn battle fever farming which it can do relatively easy. Just 2 casters working together can be devastating to an entire allience. Brining up any other lb is just insulting when you have the best lb in the game. Btw 1 heal , stun can also ruin a melee lb.

[Dimitrii]

All this talk about limit breaks is ridiculous. Melee lb is the highest single target dps, ranged lb is the highest ranged dps, tank lb is the best party wide damage reduction ability, healer lb is the best party wide restoration ability, and all of which come from a pooled resource for an entire party. These abilities are the absolute height of their respective roles and are used situationally so they should not be factored into any individual class' abilities. The effectiveness of lbs should only be compared to each other.

What I'm saying is, these abilities belong to the party and not the individual who uses it.

Umm what? I wish this were true cause I would love nothing more than to see the individual limit breaks gone but last I checked they are still in place in seize. There is no pooled lb in seize ur thinking about secure probably and since this thread is about smns at lvl 60 and secure is capped at 50 then yeah......

Do you understand how much more powerful caster lb is on the long run? Those 20 plus kills 500k damage kills, are a result of smn battle fever farming which it can do relatively easy. Just 2 casters working together can be devastating to an entire allience. Brining up any other lb is just insulting when you have the best lb in the game. Btw 1 heal , stun can also ruin a Ninja's lb.

Fixed that for you. No competent dragoon/monk will lb before putting fetter ward up beforehand so stun/sleep/kneeling down in prayer is irrelevant and will not save you. The only thing that can (aside from any obvious direct dmg mitigation abilities/lb) is high hp as you implied and an instant cure immediately after you eat the lb (some ppl nerf their dmg for this reason as dps and run with fending accessories). Perhaps a knockback would also work as I dont think fetter ward blocks that but stun is irrelevant. Someone else would have to knockback for you though cause again if the melee has half a brain you will be stunned urself and be unable to do so (even a 2 second delay is too late to stop it from going off). Its an incredibly cheesy lb.

[RiceisNice]

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A quick reaction from your party or even yourself (given that you ate) can interrupt an LB with a knockback, or straight up ruin the melee's day with burst damage and kill him before the LB animation finishes (which is pretty risky if you are a battle high/fever without a healer actively babysitting you). Granted this is taking into account you're sniping a individual out of a group, but honestly if you get caught with your pants down by yourself, that's more-or-less a death sentence regardless of who or what it was.