Ninja bad or ok?

[Craiger]

Take the ninja in the raid is a waste of dps, as for example, the Dragoon and the Ninja in perfect rotations , the ninja is far behind at 200 dps.The vulnerability debuff , in this sense does not recover the damage lost. No tank has trouble generating agro and therefore agro ninja skills are simply trash.

Please don't come here and state wrong "facts"... You're just making this problem bigger.

NIN is way WAY closer than 200 DPS behind DRG. I don't know where you're getting that number from, cause that's just a BS statement...

MNK is slightly behind DRG, NIN is slightly behind MNK on a parser. 2x slightly, doesn't add up to 200 DPS. Also, Trick Attack does more than you think, and it takes them well over MNK in actual DPS you give to the group.

Don't get me wrong, DRG is OP at the moment, because not only do they have the highest DPS on a parse + Litany, they also buff BRD/MCH DPS enough to put them ahead.

That doesn't mean NIN is in a bad spot though, because the best groups in the world use them.

[Arow22]

Why don't you just flat out say and admit that You Want nin to be the highest dps.

Think I was trying to point out the intent of SE vs just say they need to be the highest. Why give Argo skill moves if they are not needed. To me, this is clear why they did this to help mitigate the high damage with pulling hate off tanks. All I'm saying, make the move relvent or help with other nin needs.

SE can change those Argo skills to other aoe or other skills to help in other areas if indeed they are more of a supportive role. Like maybe double a magic cast or simple add another aoe move. I don't see SE changing skills so leads to one thing.

Think any ninja would trade those Argo skills with a monk or drgn for some of theirs aoe skills in return for not being top DPS.

[Fellesarah]

It is a fact , the ninja is a broken class, agro skills are crap and no reason to exist , there is no problem of agro generation with tanks , TA does not increase the overall dps at the end of raid and the chance of error is very high. Error is equal to lose dps . The logic says to not take the ninja in progression like SA3, a group with BLM , DRK , MNK will do much better dps work , than a group with BLM , DRK , NIN. Its a FACT YOSHIDA is wrong .....

[Subucnimorning]

It is a fact , the ninja is a broken class, agro skills are crap and no reason to exist , there is no problem of agro generation with tanks , TA does not increase the overall dps at the end of raid and the chance of error is very high. Error is equal to lose dps . The logic says to not take the ninja in progression like SA3, a group with BLM , DRK , MNK will do much better dps work , than a group with BLM , DRK , NIN. Its a FACT YOSHIDA is wrong .....

What about the groups that beat A3S that use Ninja? I am not sure what you mean by "TA Does not increase the overall dps at the end of raid"...it is a dps increase to the raid.

Also, yes there is a chance of error which is annoying...however, after doing fights for a bit you can easily learn patterns and know when you should use TA and when you should wait.

[Fellesarah]

I did not say that it was not possible to do with the ninja I'm talking about is much easier without the ninja.

[Neyka]

It is a fact , the ninja is a broken class, agro skills are crap and no reason to exist , there is no problem of agro generation with tanks , TA does not increase the overall dps at the end of raid and the chance of error is very high. Error is equal to lose dps . The logic says to not take the ninja in progression like SA3, a group with BLM , DRK , MNK will do much better dps work , than a group with BLM , DRK , NIN. Its a FACT YOSHIDA is wrong .....

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Fellesarah]

Ok .. One boss fight 3 dps one fight 3 min simulation BLM , DRK (DRG sorry edited) , MNK same average gear lvl

3*900 (here is a average dps for ilvl 170) +180 (seconds)= 486.000 damage done

Ninja at same average gear ilvl do 750 dps .... (average value from data)

now (2*900+750)*180 = 459.000 damage done but TA do 10% more dps , in 180 seconds = 2 TA up

459.000 + (2*900+750)*20(seconds)*0,1 = 459.000 +5100 = 464.100

486.000 - 464.100 = 21.900 damage lost

but TA has is a 3 stage ninjutsu I need to compile success chance too ?

[Sleigh]

Ok .. One boss fight 3 dps one fight 3 min simulation BLM , DRK , MNK same average gear lvl

3*900 (here is a average dps for ilvl 170) +180 (seconds)= 486.000 damage done

Ninja at same average gear ilvl do 750 dps .... (average value from data)

now (2*900+750)*180 = 459.000 damage done but TA do 10% more dps , in 180 seconds = 2 TA up

459.000 + (2*900+750)*20(seconds)*0,1 = 459.000 +5100 = 464.100

486.000 - 464.100 = 21.900 damage lost

but TA has is a 3 stage ninjutsu I need to compile success chance too ?

Okay so ...

1. DRK is not a DPS, and all your numbers in general are off.
2. TA benefits 7 other people in content other than dungeons
3. NIN is around mid-level DPS, somewhere above BRDs/SMN and close to BLM depending on if MCH or BRD is in the party
4. You get 3 TAs in 180s, not 2. You almost get 4. Around 10s, 1m10s, 2m10s, about to near 3m10s.
5. About the worst thing you can say about doing a Suiton is you may have to go slower than you should have to because you're not on a JP server. Big whoop.

[Fellesarah]

sorry ok but the third TA has a high chance to fail....... statisc calc ...

[Fellesarah]

Ah sorry is not DRK ..... my error ... I say DRG sorry ... DRG, MNK and BLM