PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Reynhart]

Jesus christ i want to see you solo tank A1S opressor, A2S, or A3S so bad now.

"Solo tanking" is a real possibility depending on the content and the gear.

Of course, if you have only the minimal required gear and several big hitters, solo tanking is not for today.
I'm pretty sure A4 normal can be done solo tank with good coordination and Rav EX has already been done that way (Even with a solo AST heal, too )

[Launched]

No, I don't know it, because DPS is A2S still matters. It's not like Faust where the splashed damage doesn't do anything. You are still killing stuff with your AoE DPS in A2S. The 300~600+ DPS you lose from the PLD has to be made up somewhere. I've heard cases where that was the difference between clearing it and not -- a PLD that switched to DRK for that fight. I don't know why you are bringing up mitigation, we were talking about PLD getting left behind in AoE enmity and damage -- hence the discussion about War Drum or adding damage to Flash.

PLD has their own advantage in aoe fights: block. The majority of damage in a fight like A2 Savage is physical, and PLD has a chance to block all of it. It's even kinda reliable because there are so many hits coming in. You don't get to take less damage like that and also do good aoe damage unless WAR/DRK get some kind of mitigation buff on groups too. If you're in an aoe fight where stuff hurts a lot, take a PLD. If you don't need the mitigation and want to clear faster, take DRK. You can clear with both of them. They have their own advantages and they shouldn't be made the same. What happened to all the PLDs arguing that they were better for speedruns because they took less damage and let the healer DPS, even though they didn't do much themselves?

[Casper]

Of course, if you have only the minimal required gear and several big hitters, solo tanking is not for today.
I'm pretty sure A4 normal can be done solo tank with good coordination and Rav EX has already been done that way (Even with a solo AST heal, too )

Dude, please, we are talking about real content here. A1S and A3S are not solo tankable during 3.0, period. A2S and A4S might with an insane amount of echo and gear using weird tactics, but that won't be optimal anyway and you will lose more trying to do it than going 2 tanks.

As said you are just both using arguments that make no sense to reply to well documented and rational opinions. There is a name for that.

It is called trolling.

[Reynhart]

Dude, please, we are talking about real content here.

And this is called elitist crap

[Casper]

And this is called elitist crap

No it's not. Who the hell care about the dps difference between Pld and Drk on A4 normal and Ravana ? You can clear those with a string of potatoes for crying out loud. Last time i went into A4 i was the second dps in the group as a warrior, and i would have been at the same position as a pld or drk. Three dps just were so subpar that it didn't matter. Still cleared it. 5% here and there in class balance is much less relevant in that content, if anything, because you have 50+% differences coming out of player skill alone, so really, no one in their right mind should give any thought about silly tiny class balance thing like this at this point. It is not even "git gud" at this point, it is just "git not terribad plox".

So yeah, Alexander savage is really the only place relevant when discussing such tiny changes in class balance. It is not elitist crap, it is being the tiniest bit realistic. Not your strongest suit given your track record of posts in that thread, i will grant you that.

[Reynhart]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

Because, believe it or not, in the Party Finder, most parties won't be about Alex Savage. And if, for thoses parties, PLD is the "worst" tank because they want to clear as fast as possible so they focus on more and more DPS, they PLD will be shafted.

In fact, static parties, that is to say parties for which endgame content has been designed, are not where the discrimination is the hardest, since you'll probably accept any job from a person you know and play regularly, as long as he's a good player with this job. As you said, any tank combination can clear Savage, but the misinformed sheep won't take any risk and exclude players for any stupid reason they can.

Those same sheep that REQUIRED a relic weapon to invite you for Titan Hard Mode back in 2.0...

[Casper]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

Because, believe it or not, in the Party Finder, most parties won't be about Alex Savage. And if, for thoses parties, PLD is the "worst" tank because they want to clear as fast as possible so they focus on more and more DPS, they PLD will be shafted.

In fact, static parties, that is to say parties for which endgame content has been designed, are not where the discrimination is the hardest, since you'll probably accept any job from a person you know and play regularly, as long as he's a good player with this job. As you said, any tank combination can clear Savage, but the misinformed sheep won't take any risk and exclude players for any stupid reason they can.

Those same sheep that REQUIRED a relic weapon to invite you for Titan Hard Mode back in 2.0...

The issue you are angry about then is not class balance but hive mind thinking and narrow-mindedness in the general population. Those are much harder problems to solve and i am afraid it is mostly out of SE's hand.

We are however here discussing class balance. You will never reach a point where all classes are considered as equal to the "hive mind" -- there will always be FOTM classes, so really, trying to balance because of this makes no sense. A month ago it was Drk that were supposed to be so underpowered, and lo and behold, turns out now they are "better than Pld" -- despite exactly zero changes made to any of the two jobs. We are in the exact same situation. And you know what ? By arguing so much about Pld being so weak, you are exactly part of the problem. You reinforce the "hive mind" idea that Pld sucks and can't be used for anything. You are making it harder for Pld around the world to get into groups, no matter class balance.

But class balance, as said, doesn't revolve about what "everyone" thinks. It should be based on optimal play and on the things where it matters. And as has been discussed at length now -- in that regards, Pld are just fine. They have great strengths and advantages, and they pay for it on some other levels, including a very modest reduction in DPS. They COULD use some quality of life changes, especially on shield swipe and clemency, which are both not in a great place at the moment.

But overall dps is NOT one of the issue of Pld at the moment. Period.

[Fue]

Someone was asking for the 5min parse.
ilvl193 with i200 weapon.
Link

[HoodRat]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

So every single thread complaining about balance issues is 100% correct? I guess that means you're in league with that guy in the dps forums who made a thread about blm being broken because they lose dps when they have to dodge aoes.

[SirPhoebos]

Whatever buff/revamp PLD gets should focus on the shield. Right now they're the only Job that uses an off-hand item (not counting leveling Conjurers and Thaumaturges), and I feel like not enough is done with it to justify why it can't just be bundled with the sword (granted it makes weapon upgrades cheaper {`<`} ). Maybe you can put all shield abilities on a separate cooldown (think Shaman shocks from WoW), and give it it's own combos.