PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Brian_]

Or give them back War Drum from 1.0. A conal Shield Swipe that increases enmity. (Maybe as a trait instead of Enhanced Awareness)

AoE damage and threat is a thing where PLD is clearly far behind the other two tanks.
Sword Oath should also increase the potency of skills and not Auto-attack, because our enmity modifiers would benefit from it, for the part where tanking in Sword Oath is doable.

The enmity modifiers just need to be adjusted to match their counterparts. It's only logical. With that and the added enmity gain from adjusting Shield Swipe's potency, PLDs should be fine with enmity generation. You aren't realizing that if you adjust SS's potency, it will end up generating more enmity per GCD than the RoH combo so it will buff PLD enmity generation by a lot already -- maybe even allowing PLD to stop using RoH entirely outside of snap aggro and openers. Changing Sword Oath to a flat damage increase just lacks flavor and uniqueness.

I think the better solution to AoE damage is to just add damage to Flash. Change the trait to +a small amount of potency with an enmity modifer since the blind is not very useful. It's the easier change. It doesn't add damage to PLD's single-target rotations and doesn't require them to completely redo an existing skill or add a new skill.

I also forgot to mention that making SS more regularly used also fixes PLD's TP issues while MTing. They will still have TP issues while OTing but in the event that you can't get a Goad or BRD/MCH, you can just cast a SS to bridge the TP gap or even spam the new Flash kind of like how DRK spams unmend.

[Casper]

Once again, for anyone complaining about Pld dps as MT, please watch this video and tell me exactly what the issue is with Pld MT dps again. Cause i really really don't see what you are all raging about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx51gn1rBD0

Regarding aggro modifiers, for sure, they should be buffed to the modifiers of other tanks now that they have more than 123 to do. Completely agree.

And Shield swipe could use some buff still indeed -- i wouldn't mind a potency of 230 to kinda match the average of Pld combos instead of being a dps loss; it was Pld average give or take in the past and should remain so, providing a TP save mostly.

But to rage that Pld is so much behind that they are left in the dust yada yada is nonsense. A2S is a bright example that Pld is GREAT. I have not seen many video with a War / Drk combo clearing it.

[Reynhart]

You aren't realizing that if you adjust SS's potency, it will end up generating more enmity per GCD than the RoH

Except Shield Swipe still requires a block to be available. And the enmity modifier of RoH is huge.

Changing Shield Swipe to War Drum was for adressing AoE damage and AoE enmity. Chaging Flash so that it would do damage would address the same issue. But I think a skill that don't do damage can be useful too, because, sometimes, you wan't to keep generating aggro without doing damage (Garuda EX, for example, or Ravana during Seeing <>...even though it doesn't work on magic damage)

As for Sword Oath increasing potency, it's an idea to make stance dancing more efficient. After all, if WAR can put more DPS as MT, it's because it can switch to DPS stance without risking losing aggro, do some really good damage and then go back to Defiance. If a PLD do that, its threat generation put them at risk, now that DPS numbers have increased that much.

If you only increase the potency of skills available while MT, PLD would still need far less skill that the other two tank to hit its maximum output.

And Sword Oath increasing potency could also make Clemency even better

[Brian_]

snip

What's the point of that video? To show that PLDs do less damage than WARs and DRKs in the same situation? I don't get it. That PLD wasn't even parsing particularly high for a PLD. Nor was that WAR parsing particularly high for a WAR. There are better videos out there if you are trying to show PLD MT DPS.

And as for A2S. DRK parses are ~900+. WAR parses are ~1200+. PLD parses are ~600+. I don't think that helps your point.

[Casper]

What's the point of that video? To show that PLDs do less damage than WARs and DRKs in the same situation? I don't get it. That PLD wasn't even parsing particularly high for a PLD. Nor was that WAR parsing particularly high for a WAR. There are better videos out there if you are trying to show PLD MT DPS.

Well show me your videos ? What i just showed you is a Pld that is MT and thus is forced to use tank stance much more than the war, yet does only 120 less dps than the war. In the same situation the war would not have parsed much higher than that Pld. And i don't think the DPS of those two tanks is "subpar" or anything; it's not the world highest (especially since people got more gear since), but it is very competitive. Are you trying to be offensive just for the sake of it or do you have anything to back up your ridiculou claims ? Show me the videos of War being MT as much as this Pld and parsing Oh so much more than him with similar gear ? I just showed you hard evidence yet you continue saying "WAAAH WAAAAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU PLD SUCKS BOUHOU" without providing any proof.

And as for A2S. DRK parses are ~900+. WAR parses are ~1200+. PLD parses are ~600+. I don't think that helps your point.

The hell ? The point is mitigation. A2S parses mean NOTHING and you now it, it is one of the fight in the game where there is the most padding possible. Once again bad faith and intelectual malhonesty, that's all you are providing to this discussion.


Edit: Oh hey actually let me use arguments like yours. Actually Pld parses on A1S are 1300+. On A2S they are 2300+. There are better videos than the videos you are saying are better than my video. True story.

[karateorangutang]

I can't believe this "I tank with this job so it's the best and able to do everything" thread is still happening.

Can we just drop this til more raids come down the pipe and we have some actual real data to look at. People are just in here writing on emotions toward certain jobs. I think we'll see some adjustments in 3.1, but until then over 90% of this thread is conjecture and defending of jobs without any real points.

I can't believe this thread is still going lol.

[Brian_]

snip

No, I don't know it, because DPS is A2S still matters. It's not like Faust where the splashed damage doesn't do anything. You are still killing stuff with your AoE DPS in A2S. The 300~600+ DPS you lose from the PLD has to be made up somewhere. I've heard cases where that was the difference between clearing it and not -- a PLD that switched to DRK for that fight. I don't know why you are bringing up mitigation, we were talking about PLD getting left behind in AoE enmity and damage -- hence the discussion about War Drum or adding damage to Flash.

And now that I see your edit, are you actually accusing me of making up those numbers? Seriously?

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...cussion/page20
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...-thread/page17

I'm not like most posters here who blatantly lie to prove a point.

As for the A3S video -- Here is why it matters. Discounting the first 150 seconds of the parse because the PLD is exclusively in Shield Oath and the WAR is just DPSing, the PLD ended up parsing 658 through the final 630 seconds. The WAR parsed 717 in the same period. During that period of time, they're both doing roughly the same stuff though the WAR does make a huge mistake, gets knocked into the electricity, wastes maybe 11 seconds of his Berserk due to being stunned and needing to run back in, and is paralyzed for 30 seconds (and by no coincidence his DPS drops like a rock during this time period). So, in the end, the WAR still ends up doing 60 more DPS and lives through everything just fine. I don't think it's productive to compare two players like this in a vacuum since there might be a difference in skill but still. If, hypothetically, you only needed 1 tank, which would you pick? The one that lived through everything and did 658 DPS or the one that lived through everything and did 717 DPS? And that's disregarding the PLD's dependence on the WAR for the slashing debuff (or a NIN, but then you would have to factor in their DPS loss).

[Casper]

Ok i found a "better video" since you wanted one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqnwxWjQGI4

Pld 740 dps while MT, War 800 dps as OT. So it proves my point even more -- there is a 60 difference here despite the Pld main tanking at the start and doing more MT duty ont he last phase.

Also known as: the difference between a good pld and a good war in term of dps is marginal. Need more proof ? Have found any video of a war doing more than this while being MT on A3S ? Or a Drk for that matter ? Oh btw more than half the videos i find have Pld and not Drk in there. I do wonder why, man, Pld is so bad, really /s


Edit: Saw your last post. Once again, i beg you. Find me the videos of those war or Drk that MT this while outputting so much more dps. All i see is pulling stuff out of your *** to try to justify your point of view.

"Assuming you only needed one tank ?" Really ? Well let's assume you need zero tank, then a drg does more DPS than the war, so we should use Drg as tanks. Don't you see how bad your arguments are ?

[Reynhart]

"Assuming you only needed one tank ?" Really ? Well let's assume you need zero tank, then a drg does more DPS than the war, so we should use Drg as tanks.

With a little subtle difference...with zero tank, you'll wipe and thus, the DRG will do crap DPS
"Solo tanking" is a real possibility depending on the content and the gear.

BUT, if you actually manage to survive with zero tank (Thanks to exceptionnal healers and very good DPS players), then yes, taking a tank IS useless.
That's exactly what happened to FFXI with Abyssea.

[Casper]

You know what ? I can't even find a video of this fight without a Pld where a parser is on. That's how little Drk are taken in that fight.

You have A1S that favor Drk, A2S Pld (i'm sorry you can be in denial all you want, almost everyone and their mom are using a Pld instead of a Drk in there given the chance), A3S Pld, and A4S Drk.

Yeah, War is the OT of choice, i'm not saying they are not in a very good place -- but both others are actually quite competitive, and used as MT for half the raids. What is the issue again ?

Edit:

"Solo tanking" is a real possibility depending on the content and the gear.

Jesus christ i want to see you solo tank A1S opressor, A2S, or A3S so bad now. Pleas show me how good you are. Again, video, show me how usefull your post was, show me the meat of your argument, show me this wasn't YET another bad faith and intellectually malhonest argument. Please. Show me i am wrong and you are not just using whatever you can, even if it is nonsense, to try to prove your point.