Why should I be excited for Grind Parties?

[Viridiana]

Impossible to be true yet it is MY experience with WoW. I played the game casually, I got Warrior to 50, then I made a Death Knight, then I took the DK to 80(WoTLK) and recently to 85 just for giggles. I -did not- have to do ANYTHING with ANYONE. I chose to do those arena quests because they seemed far more interesting than kill quests. Like I said, I only ran into 5 arena quests the entire time I played.

I also said don't bother mentioning raids. Because its a non-issue since FFXIV is taking a strong raid stance as stated by Yoshi-P.

And here we are again. My questions not answered and everything else moot. Awesome. I have no idea how the dev team pulls ideas out of these forums. It's insanity.

In the defense of WoW (on these forums, lol), I wanna say a lot of what used to be group quests got changed to not be group quests anymore around the time Cata came out. I could be wrong, though.

Regardless, though, it was possible to quest solo to cap in WoW. There used to be a few points where you'd pretty much have to stop and grind out a level or so, but those vanished during WotLK. . .

[SirOleas]

That's cool and all. I came in too late it would seem. Either way though, Grinding is still grinding no matter how you get the exp. I don't care if you camp a corner of the map and kill tons of mobs or if you waste your time running from NPC to 10 random monster and back to the NPC again for exp.

It's all a damn grind. Period.

My question again:
What kind of engaging content/battle would everyone like to enjoy to the point that it does not feel like a grind?

Everyone is hell bent on either doing quests or grinding mobs:
This does nothing for anyone (both are already in game); Lets actually come up with some damn ideas rather than dismissing everything everyone says and sniping each other with what we think are intelligent insults.

[Xenor]

I don't like quests, it should be an option for SP but I don't want that. I want dungeons designed for levelling, defence battles that gives worthwhile SP, beast tribe raids that give good SP etc. They are all coming so it's no big issue. It's a pointless argument.

And yes the Darkhold does give SP, but it's not designed for levelling. There's not enough mobs and the boss fights don't give SP.

[Wolfie]

Dungeoneering.... Explain this because it sounds like an instanced raid that gives exp... We have that. Both the current dungeons give exp for every mob killed.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. And it's exactly what Yoshi is trying to push from the looks of it. Of course, we only have two right now, but he said he's planning on adding more.

Long group quests rewarding exp would be fine, but faster than grinding? I doubt it.

Why shouldn't they award at least equal experience to grinding if done at the appropriate level? Why not more? Why does grinding have to be the ultimate solution?

That's the point I am making. There are other options already in game, and there are more coming. Will any of them be as fast as a good old grinding party? I doubt it.

I would consider the amount of time it takes for a long group quest to be completed. Running from place to place, killing mobs to move onto the next part of the quest, talking to various NPC's scattered all over the game world. etc.

It seems that it's not really an issue of options but of effectiveness. If this idea were put in, the complaint would then be that it takes too long to complete for the EXP obtained from it.

We already have people complaining they can't get obscene amounts of exp from Levequests any more. I don't even want to imagine what the complaining would be like if you had to invest time into obtaining EXP from a -long- group quest.

That's why the devs need to be constantly looking at balancing things, because you can't get everything in one go. If people are not doing quests or dungeons (or leves, or behests, or whatever else the devs will make) while leveling, it means that they need to become more accessible, shorter, easier, more rewarding, or a combination of those four.

If grinding continues to be the #1 method of leveling for the majority of players, it means that content that the devs make is wasted. If the devs are making dungeons, leves, quests, behests, beastman camps, and whatever else into things that award experience, grinding should be a last resort. It should be something for people who can't put together the correct party to get those done, who aren't geared or skilled enough to do them, who have already done them and must wait for a reset, or who may not have time to do them. Anything less than that means that the devs are wasting their time creating content that people ultimately don't care about and might not ever see.

[Pandastirfry]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. And it's exactly what Yoshi is trying to push from the looks of it. Of course, we only have two right now, but he said he's planning on adding more.



Why shouldn't they award at least equal experience to grinding if done at the appropriate level? Why not more? Why does grinding have to be the ultimate solution?



That's why the devs need to be constantly looking at balancing things, because you can't get everything in one go. If people are not doing quests or dungeons (or leves, or behests, or whatever else the devs will make) while leveling, it means that they need to become more accessible, shorter, easier, more rewarding, or a combination of those four.

If grinding continues to be the #1 method of leveling for the majority of players, it means that content that the devs make is wasted. If the devs are making dungeons, leves, quests, behests, beastman camps, and whatever else into things that award experience, grinding should be a last resort. It should be something for people who can't put together the correct party to get those done, who aren't geared or skilled enough to do them, who have already done them and must wait for a reset, or who may not have time to do them. Anything less than that means that the devs are wasting their time creating content that people ultimately don't care about and might not ever see.

exactly my point. I played FFXI since NA release and I never got my rank above 5 because getting a party to actually do anything was like pulling teeth and you needed them to advance even the side story lines, but get a party together to kill the exact same mobs in the exact same way in the exact same places for 6 years...well difficulty for that largely fell to what class you were. This was not my idea of fun...so I wandered off to other mmos, and saw that, hey if you don't force people into one style of play these things can actually be fun.

I like in this game that you can solo or you can party, and hell I only got involved in thread because someone said if you don't have a rank 50 than your opinion doesn't matter, but I'm dismayed by the people that want this game to be exactly like FFXI, warts and all, rather than something new, interesting, and not as locked in "you will do it this way, AND ONLY THIS WAY" as that game was.

[Charismatic]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. And it's exactly what Yoshi is trying to push from the looks of it. Of course, we only have two right now, but he said he's planning on adding more.



Why shouldn't they award at least equal experience to grinding if done at the appropriate level? Why not more? Why does grinding have to be the ultimate solution?



That's why the devs need to be constantly looking at balancing things, because you can't get everything in one go. If people are not doing quests or dungeons (or leves, or behests, or whatever else the devs will make) while leveling, it means that they need to become more accessible, shorter, easier, more rewarding, or a combination of those four.

If grinding continues to be the #1 method of leveling for the majority of players, it means that content that the devs make is wasted. If the devs are making dungeons, leves, quests, behests, beastman camps, and whatever else into things that award experience, grinding should be a last resort. It should be something for people who can't put together the correct party to get those done, who aren't geared or skilled enough to do them, who have already done them and must wait for a reset, or who may not have time to do them. Anything less than that means that the devs are wasting their time creating content that people ultimately don't care about and might not ever see.

Wolfie, stop trying to kill my hate of bronies by consistently making sense. By all rights, you are supposed to be retarded.

[Murugan]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. And it's exactly what Yoshi is trying to push from the looks of it. Of course, we only have two right now, but he said he's planning on adding more.



Why shouldn't they award at least equal experience to grinding if done at the appropriate level? Why not more? Why does grinding have to be the ultimate solution?



That's why the devs need to be constantly looking at balancing things, because you can't get everything in one go. If people are not doing quests or dungeons (or leves, or behests, or whatever else the devs will make) while leveling, it means that they need to become more accessible, shorter, easier, more rewarding, or a combination of those four.

If grinding continues to be the #1 method of leveling for the majority of players, it means that content that the devs make is wasted. If the devs are making dungeons, leves, quests, behests, beastman camps, and whatever else into things that award experience, grinding should be a last resort. It should be something for people who can't put together the correct party to get those done, who aren't geared or skilled enough to do them, who have already done them and must wait for a reset, or who may not have time to do them. Anything less than that means that the devs are wasting their time creating content that people ultimately don't care about and might not ever see.

Nice attempt to make Grinding seem easier than guildleves/behests/quests. That is not the case, and never will be. Those things will never be balanced for leveling purposes as anything that could possibly pose a challenge. It won't happen, it never has happened in the history of MMO's. Never has this "content" been done by the majority for XP at a level or severely undergeared state that would make the deliberately dumbed down low/mid level XP "content" a challenge. There has been challenging mid level content in games of the past, but it was never used as a primary form of leveling, only easy repetitive insultingly menial tasks have been used. That's why people prefer grinding to your "content", because at least with Grinding (under the new system) those of us who want to seek a challenge through leveling can be rewarded for that.

People will always do content for the content's rewards, they do Toto-Rak now for the drops/quest completion. They do quests for the rewards or the story if they are bored/role players/lore enthusiasts, if quests become the fastest way to level (like in WoW) then people will do quests for XP, but that is still a grind and in many's opinion a much worse form of grinding since skill/grouping plays no or a very small part in the experience.

[odette]

Wow you just explained combat in an MMO. Here's a sticker!

Other games have very poor grinding systems, and instead fill their leveling with fake "content" which is much easier/pointless than group grinding.

Oh and how does "good team play come into effect", how about because the better the tank holds aggro, the more damage the DD can do, the less healing the healers have to do, the higher the XP chain the party can go, the more linked mobs they can tackle at once,[SIZE="5"] the faster they earn XP and progress together[/SIZE]. All as a result of their ability.

Let's compare that to your average "modern MMO" in which your progress is determined by how fast can I run between quest givers and stay awake while I am handed XP for little to no effort, or how effectively can I leach from this Rift/"public quest"/dynamic event that is virtually impossible to fail or really even impact at all through skill full play without having to actually coordinate my efforts with anyone else. Yeah no thanks, I'll take grinding over that crap any day when leveling in an MMO.

mmm tipical ffxi players reply, grind pt = lack of content
grind dont have content, is boring, social????? come one thsi game need more players, little camps for grind and slow respawn

please i want more interesting quest that obsolet things for leveling

[Synapse]

Why should I be excited for Grind Parties?

Grinding is always been part of MMORPG thing, its the primary way of leveling. eventho its tiresome most of the time, i found FFXI grind party, old skool SC party to be interesting..

those who hate grinding probably got their MMO virginity broken by WoW's talk to npc A, talk to npc B, talk to npc A *10,000exp*!!!

Go do some actual work and learn your job instead of practicing NPC chatting skills.

last thing i want is:

Mage: Ah! im getting hit, Gladiator! Provoke!!
Gladiator: oh... thats what is used for!!? im sorry, i just talk to npc and atk mobs.

*im exaggerating obviously :P*

/cast utsusemi.

[TonyMontana]

Grinding is always been part of MMORPG thing, its the primary way of leveling. eventho its tiresome most of the time, i found FFXI grind party, old skool SC party to be interesting..

those who hate grinding probably got their MMO virginity broken by WoW's talk to npc A, talk to npc B, talk to npc A *10,000exp*!!!

Go do some actual work and learn your job instead of practicing NPC chatting skills.

last thing i want is:

Mage: Ah! im getting hit, Gladiator! Provoke!!
Gladiator: oh... thats what is used for!!? im sorry, i just talk to npc and atk mobs.

*im exaggerating obviously :P*

/cast utsusemi.

FFXIV is the game that actually has a mini game that lets you progress through the storyline doing this not wow.