#nofunallowed

[seorin]

It's a perfectly valid argument. People leave WoW all the time because they feel it's too easy.

You're ignoring the history that I'm referring to. When WoW came out, reaching the level cap in an MMO required an enormous time commitment. WoW changed that through questing instead of grinding, and by removing harsh death penalties. That formula was a wild success, spawning over a decade of imitators. This same history played out again between FFXIV 1.0 and 2.0. Anecdotal claims don't hold any weight when facts show otherwise.

People are bored to tears already and we barely 2 months in.

They're bored because everything they have left feels like a slog for little to no reward. It's not because everything is so easy they finished it all. Nobody is accusing SE of making it too easy to collect all the triple triad cards, for example.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

You're ignoring the history that I'm referring to. When WoW came out, reaching the level cap in an MMO required an enormous time commitment

No it didn't. FFXI took an enormous time commitment, WoW took 2 weeks.

Ultimately everyone payed $40-60 bux for the expansion, got roughly 50-60 hours worth of gameplay from the campaign. So everyone got their money's worth. Yea I agree. Endgame sucks, but it sucks because the community caused it to suck. Ultimately you can stick around for 3.1 if you want. They will add 2 dungeons a 24 man raid and a chocobo-themed pilotwings minigame. Everyone will blast throught that content in a few weeks and we go back to waiting for the next patch with time gates, because the raid will prob drop 4 pieces of loot for each 8 man party.

I'm personally going to finish out Heavensward but another expansion will be a hard sell for me with the current WoW-esque model that ff14 is using. While a WoW game skinned in final fantasy is still better than WoW, not by much IMO.

EDIT: Also you can get 80% of the TT cards pretty easily, theres nothing stopping anyone from enjoying TT with friends or NPCs.

[seorin]

No it didn't. FFXI took an enormous time commitment, WoW took 2 weeks.

That's exactly what I'm saying. WoW's explosive popularity stemmed from its accessibility, not a long grind. It toppled grindier games EQ, DAoC, and FFXI in an instant.

If you don't like your games to be more accessible, that's fine, but it's incorrect to say that most people prefer the grind when history shows otherwise. The facts support the OP's claim that the game would be more successful and sustainable with less grind. Players who prefer more grind should seek out a title aimed at that niche audience, of which there are plenty (but they don't tend to do too well, financially).

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

That's exactly what I'm saying. WoW's explosive popularity stemmed from its accessibility, not a long grind. It toppled grindier games EQ, DAoC, and FFXI in an instant.

I'll just say one last thing, because I don't think your neccessarily wrong but WoW was more popular when it was less accessible. Without LFR, LFG, and Garrisons WoW had more subscriber playing the game for longer hours ect. WoD is more accessible than ever and bleeding subs, Legion is prob close to a year away and WoW will prob lose a bunch more subs before it comes out.

The devs can only do so much. They can't create 1000 hours of gameplay without adding in some kind of obstacle. The 2 most obvious obstacles I can think of are difficulty (Savage mode takes a long time to beat because you will wipe to it for 100 hours or more) or grinds (Repeating things for a reward adds more gameplay time).

If people are past alexander normal, theres a good chance they have logged in 100 hours on Heavensward. Not bad for a 40 dollar expansion. If you want to play more than that, your prob going to have to grind some stuff out (chocobo pedigree, TT cards, or crafting) or do the really difficult content like savage. The devs just simply can't make 20 more dungeons in any reasonable time frame.

This is why i say when the community constantly tries to get the devs to break down those obstacles, it really kills the replayability of the game. And ruins the experience for the players that didn't want those obstacles knocked down for them.

[Gallus]

Well, to be fair, I had fun with chocobo racing (and I'm having fun), I could use having more than one racing chocobo at a time (server space? xD), but hey...things are not perfect. As for sightseeing log........duh, I don't know how you guys can find that fun...go into a spot...and, that's it lol, of course you'll be burnt out after doing so repeatedly <.<. That's my definition of antifun.
Triple triad is ok, not perfect either (tournament and 4 star cards being useless <.<).
My biggest issue with Gold Saucer at the moment is how the MGP currency is useless now. We got a new hairstyle, a cloud strife card (meh), a fenrir mount (useless because it can't fly) and a few mediocre at best glamour weapons and gear. It's been like this for months, would it hurt too much to add anything a bit more relevant there? A flying mount perhaps? Or give use a battle square where we can use our MGP, train our rotations against bosses/mobs and then obtain battle square points which we could exchange into say GC seals, draconian-xpotions (NQ), level 55 food (NQ), etc.
Don't make it gamebreaking, but at least give MGP some sort of minimal relevance if someone is committed about getting them.

[ElHeggunte]

My biggest issue with Gold Saucer at the moment is how the MGP currency is useless now. [...]

Well they did just announce that they're adding new stuff to GS and making tweaks to MGP, so we'll see.