#nofunallowed

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

That's exactly what I'm saying. WoW's explosive popularity stemmed from its accessibility, not a long grind. It toppled grindier games EQ, DAoC, and FFXI in an instant.

I'll just say one last thing, because I don't think your neccessarily wrong but WoW was more popular when it was less accessible. Without LFR, LFG, and Garrisons WoW had more subscriber playing the game for longer hours ect. WoD is more accessible than ever and bleeding subs, Legion is prob close to a year away and WoW will prob lose a bunch more subs before it comes out.

The devs can only do so much. They can't create 1000 hours of gameplay without adding in some kind of obstacle. The 2 most obvious obstacles I can think of are difficulty (Savage mode takes a long time to beat because you will wipe to it for 100 hours or more) or grinds (Repeating things for a reward adds more gameplay time).

If people are past alexander normal, theres a good chance they have logged in 100 hours on Heavensward. Not bad for a 40 dollar expansion. If you want to play more than that, your prob going to have to grind some stuff out (chocobo pedigree, TT cards, or crafting) or do the really difficult content like savage. The devs just simply can't make 20 more dungeons in any reasonable time frame.

This is why i say when the community constantly tries to get the devs to break down those obstacles, it really kills the replayability of the game. And ruins the experience for the players that didn't want those obstacles knocked down for them.

[Gallus]

Well, to be fair, I had fun with chocobo racing (and I'm having fun), I could use having more than one racing chocobo at a time (server space? xD), but hey...things are not perfect. As for sightseeing log........duh, I don't know how you guys can find that fun...go into a spot...and, that's it lol, of course you'll be burnt out after doing so repeatedly <.<. That's my definition of antifun.
Triple triad is ok, not perfect either (tournament and 4 star cards being useless <.<).
My biggest issue with Gold Saucer at the moment is how the MGP currency is useless now. We got a new hairstyle, a cloud strife card (meh), a fenrir mount (useless because it can't fly) and a few mediocre at best glamour weapons and gear. It's been like this for months, would it hurt too much to add anything a bit more relevant there? A flying mount perhaps? Or give use a battle square where we can use our MGP, train our rotations against bosses/mobs and then obtain battle square points which we could exchange into say GC seals, draconian-xpotions (NQ), level 55 food (NQ), etc.
Don't make it gamebreaking, but at least give MGP some sort of minimal relevance if someone is committed about getting them.

[Wobble]

I also would love more fun type things to do like mini quest lines or something like that. I do agree the sightseeing log was a total miss on their part. I for one decided a minion and title are not worth that much hoop jumping. I loved the sightseeing log in HW areas because they didn't require anything out of the ordinary other than flying to some.

[Asierid]

I'll just say one last thing, because I don't think your neccessarily wrong but WoW was more popular...

Actually WoW was more popular because it was the only thing that was not a total grind fest at the time. It began to lose subs once other MMOs entered the market that began to do their own thing, but better (Aion/War with its world pvp, Rift with its open world content, etc)

LFG and LFR gained them some numbers and was well praised within the community. It was what they did with it afterward which killed what little momentum they had into a nosedive.

The problem with WoD is that there is nothing to do, not that it is casual friendly. There is no content at all.

Anyway, on topic: You're burned out. Nothing new.

[D-vide]

Yeah, ok sure! We will just have to agree to disagree. If they made all the cards easy to get people would be complaining that the devs need to make more cards because TT is pointless. Either way, most of the cards are very easy to get and there are a few that are difficult to try and encourage people to play the game more often.

Like everything else you choose how to spend your time. You can play TT casually for fun or you can go super commando and grind it out 8 hours straight to try and get the cloud card.

I'm sorry, but the claim that most of the cards are easy to get is simply not valid. Saying that the Cloud card only needs a super commando 8 hour grind is a terrible misjudgement.

And playing TT for fun means playing an awkward handicapped version. The chess example of playing with 20 pawns against 20 queens definitely applies. The extreme gating of TT isn't necessary.

[Karen_Cerfrumos]

Progression grinds attached to Chocobo Racing, TT and Sightseeing log were the reasons I didn't even consider doing it because I'd rather spend that time on leveling, raiding or gearing up. OP is totally right.
What was supposed to be a distraction ended up being progression for no reason other than "it's MMOey that way".

[Terribad]

I just want to be able to do quests with my friends instead of having to disband everything 3 minutes.

[Duelle]

Then we got Triple Triad.

As far as triple triad goes, I'm not surprised it was designed around grinds.

I mean, let's look at it as a base concept. Triple Triad is a side-activity that's designed to take a while (even as far back as FFVIII it would take you a while to get 100% completion on all cards, not including the questline to beat the king of cards). Mechanics-wise it's not a game that has standard units in a matter of speaking. It's not like blackjack or old maid or trumps or go fish, which are limited by a standard 52-card deck (meaning you can play as long as you have a 52-card deck). The more "strong" cards you collect, the bigger your chances of winning. And as is common with collectible card games, it becomes less a game of luck/skill and more a game of what deck you choose to play with.

Since your deck has such a strong effect on your chances of winning, it is logical to make that part of TT take time to achieve. In addition, unlike FFVIII and FFIX (which have a finite number of assets), FFXIV is constantly growing due to being an MMORPG, so its longevity has to span beyond what we saw in VIII and IX (read: more assets in-game = more cards = more time involved in completing a collection and putting together a deck). Atrophy happens to be the antithesis of collectible card games (hence why Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh revise rules and constantly add cards), so making it finite would go against the whole point of a CCG. Likewise, CCGs by nature take a loooooooong time to complete a collection (this is why you see rare cards going for ridiculous prices in comic book shops and e-bay).

tl;dr - Triple Triad is designed along the lines of collectible card games in real life, and as such will take a long time to collect cards.

[Asierid]

As far as triple triad goes, I'm not surprised it was designed around grinds.

Not to mention it was a grind to begin with in 8 in order to get anything decent.

The only thing I wish they did was allow us to use whatever deck we wished in order to farm cards (And able to abolish the Random rule, but eh).

[D-vide]

As far as triple triad goes, I'm not surprised it was designed around grinds.

I mean, let's look at it as a base concept. Triple Triad is a side-activity that's designed to take a while (even as far back as FFVIII it would take you a while to get 100% completion on all cards, not including the questline to beat the king of cards). Mechanics-wise it's not a game that has standard units in a matter of speaking. It's not like blackjack or old maid or trumps or go fish, which are limited by a standard 52-card deck (meaning you can play as long as you have a 52-card deck). The more "strong" cards you collect, the bigger your chances of winning. And as is common with collectible card games, it becomes less a game of luck/skill and more a game of what deck you choose to play with.

Yeah, but this type of gameplay only starts after you gather 60 cards. I wouldn't have mind getting cards being a great challenge. The thing is, getting most of the cards isn't a challenge, it's a gated, time-based chore. You have to work your way through 60 of these to even compete normally.

Since your deck has such a strong effect on your chances of winning, it is logical to make that part of TT take time to achieve. In addition, unlike FFVIII and FFIX (which have a finite number of assets), FFXIV is constantly growing due to being an MMORPG, so its longevity has to span beyond what we saw in VIII and IX (read: more assets in-game = more cards = more time involved in completing a collection and putting together a deck). Atrophy happens to be the antithesis of collectible card games (hence why Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh revise rules and constantly add cards), so making it finite would go against the whole point of a CCG. Likewise, CCGs by nature take a loooooooong time to complete a collection (this is why you see rare cards going for ridiculous prices in comic book shops and e-bay).

tl;dr - Triple Triad is designed along the lines of collectible card games in real life, and as such will take a long time to collect cards.

Still, you can play those games with all the cards you collect. Also, Yu-gi-oh and Magic have multiple purposes for different cards. TT cards serve one purpose, cost a diffect kind of currency that is far more gated than the usual currency and is handicapped for 66% of collecting. I don't think you can compare it against RL CCG's because the premise is totally different. And I think the premise is what's wrong with it in the first place.