#nofunallowed

[D-vide]

That's just like, your opinion, man. I've had lots of fun with the Sightseeing Log and Chocobo Racing and I plan to start getting into Triple Triad more seriously once I finally get 30 cards (almost there...!).

If you view everything as being a grind and treat it like one, then of course it's going to seem like one. You don't have to have/do everything right away-- space it out and do stuff when you feel like it. Things aren't going to go away if you don't get them within a certain amount of time.

You certainly have a good point. I do however think that, even if you space TT or SS out, the fact that they're based on RNG makes it grindy. They turn into tedious tasks which they shouldn't have to be.

[LunaHoshino]

You certainly have a good point. I do however think that, even if you space TT or SS out, the fact that they're based on RNG makes it grindy. They turn into tedious tasks which they shouldn't have to be.

My attitude with TT cards has basically been "I'm not doing anything else at the moment, I'll do a few runs of X and see if the card drops." If it does, great, but if not, I'm not going to tear my hair out over it. I'll just give it another shot on a different day.

I've managed to amass a large number of the dropped cards that way without it ever feeling like a grind at all, because I stop grinding when I start getting tired of it.

[Reinha]

The sightseeing log was a big waste for the team. . . . They made some great spots and lore surrounding it, but you had to grind them out.

Then we got Triple Triad. . . . I grinded like a full month for that.

Everything is big grind now, not everything has to be a big grind for a game to be successful and sustainable.

So you grind through all the casual pastime content and then complain everything is a grind? I bet if they added platforming puzzles you would grind those out too and complain more. Here's an idea. Don't forcibly grind through pastime content when it get's released and you won't get tired of it.

(Side note: the team also needs to stop making skimpy outfits all the time. Seriously, 70% of the glamours is either bathing suits, summer tops, skimpy dresses, amulets or Taffeta stuff)

Like 99% of actual battle gear covers the player head to toe. When people ask for skimpy battle gear, they are buried in angry responses how that kind of clothes should only be glamour items. This is the natural result of that line of thinking. Simply reducing the relative amount of skimpy glamour is not going to fly, because a lot of players like that style of clothing and they want new options just like anyone else. So which is it: do you want new skimpy designs to be glamour items or combat gear?

[D-vide]

So you grind through all the casual pastime content and then complain everything is a grind? I bet if they added platforming puzzles you would grind those out too and complain more. Here's an idea. Don't forcibly grind through pastime content when it get's released and you won't get tired of it.

I actually don't grind through it. For TT: in order for me to play a friendly match with a friend of mine, I need at least 60 unique cards. So naturally I am gonna start collecting cards so I can actually play the game with a friend. I just gave up after a month when I found out it was a horrid grind.

As for SS log: Stopped at 10 vistas. Their own graphs showed that this minion was the least popular. I'm not trying to specifically point out I have a problem with it. I'm just saying I am upset because another system that was supposed to be fun, turns out to be flawed.

It's too bad you assume I am grinding out everything forcibly as fast as possible. On the contrary. It just sucks that there is so much lost potential in this area. It's a legitimate complaint.

So which is it: do you want new skimpy designs to be glamour items or combat gear?

But I'm a lala and skimpy gear looks weird. I want more cute gear. I want it. I WANT IT.
*stampedes out of the room*

*walks back in*
*checks retainer*
*it caught a fish*

*stampedes back out*

[ElHeggunte]

(Side note: the team also needs to stop making skimpy outfits all the time. Seriously, 70% of the glamours is either bathing suits, summer tops, skimpy dresses, amulets or Taffeta stuff)

The majority of the gear in this game covers you up pretty well, even on females. And most of the revealing armor is still done in a practical manner (the Demon chest pieces for Monk and Ninja from World of Darkness, for example). It's not SE's fault that out of the hundreds of conservative outfits they've added, a lot of their players flock to the handful of skimpy bikinis and try to appear as naked as possible.

[Alberel]

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing the OP since they're right. A lot of 'for fun' gameplay systems have been added with deliberate timesink gating mechanisms that make them entirely not fun.

Triple Triad, for example is a fun mini-game in its own right but getting new cards is such a chore that most people have simply given up on even bothering. If a gameplay system that is supposed to be fun is so unrewarding that players have largely given up on it then there is something seriously wrong with the design behind that system.

The same goes for chocobo racing and the sightseeing log, as the OP points out. In fact the sightseeing log is a great example because the new sightseeing log in Heavensward areas actually is fun since there are no ridiculous time and weather requirements... you simply have to find the location and work out the correct emote to use. The very fact this changed in the new log suggests SE is aware of how self-defeating the absurd gating on the original log was.

'For fun' content should not be a timesink. It should be something fun to do when you're tired of the countless other timesinks already in the game.

[ElHeggunte]

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing the OP since they're right. A lot of 'for fun' gameplay systems have been added with deliberate timesink gating mechanisms that make them entirely not fun.

At the same time, if SE made all of the "fun" stuff too lenient people would burn through it quickly and then still complain that they have nothing to do. This is an unwinnable war from SE's perspective. And while the card grind for TT can be a pain, isn't that exactly how it worked in all the single player FF games that had a card mini-game? You had to fight mobs and do dungeons to earn cards, especially the good ones. That's not an excuse for how frustratingly grindy it is, but it is kind of what people begged for.

[Alberel]

At the same time, if SE made all of the "fun" stuff too lenient people would burn through it quickly and then still complain that they have nothing to do. This is an unwinnable war from SE's perspective. And while the card grind for TT can be a pain, isn't that exactly how it worked in all the single player FF games that had a card mini-game? You had to fight mobs and do dungeons to earn cards, especially the good ones. That's not an excuse for how frustratingly grindy it is, but it is kind of what people begged for.

The thing is fluff content like these mini-games should be able to be burned through quickly. The point of these sorts of things isn't to have a progression system but simply to offer a fun alternative to normal gameplay. It's something to do to chill out when the grind in other areas is taking its toll.

Take Triple Triad again for example. If they made it so that a player was guaranteed to receive a card when defeating an NPC in a match they would be able to build out their decks quickly and then actually enjoy the game for the gameplay rather than simply grinding for cards. As it is now the majority of players aren't even playing Triple Triad at all because they can't be bothered with the card grind required.

If I recall in FFVIII and FFIX you were actually guaranteed a specific card from most matches. The difficulty in obtaining cards was simply in beating the NPC, not beating them 100 times and hoping RNG favours you. Challenge is fun. Repetitive grind based on RNG is not fun. Having something not fun as part of a fluff 'for fun' piece of side content is defeating the point of even having it.

[ElHeggunte]

The thing is fluff content like these mini-games should be able to be burned through quickly. [...]

That's true, but there needs to be a middle-ground. If it's something that you exhaust almost immediately the first time you do it, you're SOL the next time you want to fall back onto that content. That was my point, I should have worded it better.

Take Triple Triad again for example. If they made it so that a player was guaranteed to receive a card when defeating an NPC in a match they would be able to build out their decks quickly [...]

Yes, I agree it's irritating as piss to fight your way through unfair rules and even if you win, you get nothing to show for it. Especially when you need to obtain 30 cards before you're even allowed to start building good decks. It's a stipulation that's not very conducive to something that's supposed to be a mini-game.

If I recall in FFVIII and FFIX [...]

It's been so long I can't remember either game very well when it comes to match rewards. In IX I believe you were given the option of selecting one of the opponent's cards that you captured during the match. If you managed a clean sweep and captured the entire board, then you earn all of the cards that were in play. Something like that anyway. I don't remember a lick about VIII.

[Alberel]

That's true, but there needs to be a middle-ground. If it's something that you exhaust almost immediately the first time you do it, you're SOL the next time you want to fall back onto that content. That was my point, I should have worded it better.

Oh I agree on that. Some form of progression system and gating can be fun. The trouble right now is that often you can spend hours on something and make no progress at all due to RNG... A balance is indeed needed.