[Idea] Race: Allagan

[Nektulos-Tuor]

So... You mean the dragons should hate all hyurs because of what the Allagans did, since you're comparing what the Ishgardians did to all elezen? O.o

There's a huge difference between playing an elezen and playing an allagan construct.

Ishgard-elezen relation is pretty much "Ishgardians, who are a small portion of elezen, did/do bad things." So just because you blame the Ishgardians for something bad, that doesn't mean you should blame all the other elezens for it since they had nothing to do with it. Unless lore states that all elezen currently living in Gridania and elsewhere originally came from Ishgard.

Allagan-allaganconstruct relation is pretty much "Allagan constructs are a small portion of the Allagan empire, and the Allagan empire did bad things." So if you blame the Allagans for something bad, and the Allagans also made these constructs, chances are a lot higher that the constructs would be tainted by the bad things the Allagans did.

So to claim that "it'd work out just fine, since Middy doesn't hate elezens for what the Ishgardians did" is a fair argument for why it would work with allagan constructs is.... illogical.

I think that.. is the opposite. If the Dragons had such a bad time against the Allagan constructs why would ALL OF THEIR DIALOGUE be about the Elezens and how they betrayed them. WHY would they be throwing all of their forces at Ishguard trying to wipe them out instead of wiping out the remaining Allagan things. It was obvious and it is obvious the Dragons know where they are, and it wouldn't be hard for Dragons to ask their multiple sources to create something to gain access to that Island, in fact there are creatures on it. That shield wasn't unstoppable.

The Dragons seem to hate Ishguard and Elezen more then anything. Why else would they throw almost all of their hoards at them?

They're Allagans. They don't get tempered. They use primals for their own purposes. Just look at Bahamut Prime.





You underestimate how over complicated the Allagans are. You don't even meet Cid until half way into the MSQ, let alone at the beginning of the game. The feasibility of him coming up wit ha virus to override na Allagan Creation is slim to none given the advancement of Allagan technology being leagues above the Garleans (whom are already pretty damn advanced relative to what we normally see). You're literally grasping at straws at this point and coming up with plot holes to justify it as a playable race :l.

Then if they are how do you know everything is feasable? How do you know the Allagans didn't make the Lalafell or the Miqo'te in the first place? Yet we are playing them through the story fine. As long as it fits in the story it makes sense.

In the first part if you ever do it. Try doing it as an Au Ra, who doesn't even VISIT or isn't suppost to be there until 50.

[HelSpites]

You know, there's already a race of Allagan robotic helpers in the game that function a lot like what you described. There's even one that follows you around. It's called the accompaniment node, and you know what, if what you were suggesting was a race of cubes and spheres and pyramids, I'd be all for that. Lore be damned, it'd be really funny to see nodes all over the place. Thing is though, seeing the examples you gave what it looks like you want is a race of robotic waifus which is the last thing this game needs more of.

[Noxifer]

I think that.. is the opposite. If the Dragons had such a bad time against the Allagan constructs why would ALL OF THEIR DIALOGUE be about the Elezens and how they betrayed them.

....about the Ishgardians, not the elezen. We're talking about nations now, not races. In one case, the bad group (Ishgard) is a small part of the whole (elezen). In the other, the bad group (Allagan empire) encompasses the subgroup (construct race).

If it was the elezen they were after and not Ishgard, we'd have a lot more dragon attacks in Gridania. Just saying.

WHY would they be throwing all of their forces at Ishguard trying to wipe them out instead of wiping out the remaining Allagan things. It was obvious and it is obvious the Dragons know where they are, and it wouldn't be hard for Dragons to ask their multiple sources to create something to gain access to that Island, in fact there are creatures on it. That shield wasn't unstoppable.

You're correct, there are several allagan constructs walking around in particular Azys Lla. But first of all, I don't think it would have been as easy as you think to "create something" to gain access. Secondly, they were contained within there -- more or less imprisoned. Thirdly, even now that the barrier's gone, they're not making much of a move to spread out into the rest of the world (something the player race most definitely would, or there'd be no point in playing it).

There's also a difference in that in the Ishgard case, you had one of the participants/victims being the constant aggressor in the war (on the dragons' side). In the Allagan case, the one with the most reason to go against them (apart from the obvious victim, who isn't really looking for revenge anyway) seems to be Middy himself, and while he could most likely get every dragon to go with him if he said the word, he hasn't shown that much inclination to control his children to that degree. That doesn't mean he'd be willing to deal with such a person at all. Just because I don't go out of my way to 'punish' the people who were mean to me during my childhood and youth doesn't mean I'd invite them over for dinner, or even agree to a polite conversation with them.

Before 'now', there was the barrier keeping the place intact, and the more imminent question (to a more-or-less immortal race of dragons) was Ishgard and its betrayal -- the Allagan empire was gone, and there was no reason to hurry to take out the trash, so to speak. Now that the war with Ishgard is calming down slightly and the barrier around Azys Lla is gone, will the dragons start gnashing their teeth about the 'allagan eyesore' and how it should be brought down permanently? Who knows?

(Of course, the non-lore explanation for why they don't eradicate all the allagan constructs in Azys Lla is... to leave some monsters around for us players to defeat.)

Then if they are how do you know everything is feasable? How do you know the Allagans didn't make the Lalafell or the Miqo'te in the first place? Yet we are playing them through the story fine. As long as it fits in the story it makes sense.

What? O.o

I admit the Crystal Tower story did plant a few seeds of 'what if' in my brain with regards to the miqo'te, but... What?

It's close to six in the morning here, and I should have gone to sleep hours ago, so I'm currently not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I really don't understand where you're going with this. It just seems like a very crazy and 'conspiracy theory' kind of argument. Sort of like "how do YOU know the government didn't replace my neighbours with robot spies?", if you know what I mean?
If you have a point with the argument, please feel free to expand on it a bit more ^^;

(I do agree with you a bit regarding the Au Ra and how they're... there from the start of the story, yet they don't appear until more than halfway into the story... But I don't think the 'solution' to the current plot holes with the new race is to promote another race that would have even bigger plot holes or potential plot holes.)

[RiceisNice]

...

Yuguri says hi. And even then, Au'ras being playable at the beginning of 2.0 (new adventuers are either legacy players thrown forward in time, or returning/arriving to Eozrea from a previous journey) makes a hell lot more sense than what you're trying to suggest (with Cid somehow uploading a virus to an allagan construct when you don't even interact with Cid until half way into the storyline, let alone in the beginning, on a creation that has long existed and probably gone into deep sleep before Cid was ever born, let alone even get in contact due to the events of 1.0 transitioning into 2.0 and his amnesia). The matter of fact is, iand is even mentioned in game on multiple occasions as well as the binding coils, that the allagans are in a far far more advanced state of technology than even the garleans can ever hope to achieve.

The burden of proof is on you to to make a case of lalafells or miqo'tes being created by the allagans, because you're the one that's trying to make a point that an allagan-synthesized race is feasible from from a story point perspective (unless you want to give them exclusive MSQ) from the ground up.

I think that.. is the opposite. If the Dragons had such a bad time against the Allagan constructs why would ALL OF THEIR DIALOGUE be about the Elezens and how they betrayed them. WHY would they be throwing all of their forces at Ishguard trying to wipe them out instead of wiping out the remaining Allagan things. It was obvious and it is obvious the Dragons know where they are, and it wouldn't be hard for Dragons to ask their multiple sources to create something to gain access to that Island, in fact there are creatures on it. That shield wasn't unstoppable.

The Dragons seem to hate Ishguard and Elezen more then anything. Why else would they throw almost all of their hoards at them?

Remember that we have different factions of dragons. Nidhogg specifically has excess rancor toward Ishgard (not elezens, don't mix these two together) for their betrayal. Bahamut has been driven to insanity by the Allagans and their inhumane treatment and imprisonment of the dragons of Meryicida. The Allagans are objectively immoral people with their experiments and ultimately causing the Fourth Umbral Era, a point that even Y'shtola agrees on during your quests in Ayz Llya. Even if there were any true allagans that were somehow alive, I'd doubt anyone would want anything to do with their schemes, let alone work with them.

[Nestama]

And to repeat myself, for this race to even work, they'd need to be given special snowflake treatment, which is unbalanced compared to other races. The race you are trying to bring to life is currently Padjal status (since it wouldn't make sense for hundreds/thousands to appear without warning, whereas it makes sense for the current six races because... they're born).

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Yuguri says hi. And even then, Au'ras being playable at the beginning of 2.0 (new adventuers are either legacy players thrown forward in time, or returning/arriving to Eozrea from a previous journey) makes a hell lot more sense than what you're trying to suggest (with Cid somehow uploading a virus to an allagan construct when you don't even interact with Cid until half way into the storyline, let alone in the beginning, on a creation that has long existed and probably gone into deep sleep before Cid was ever born, let alone even get in contact due to the events of 1.0 transitioning into 2.0 and his amnesia). The matter of fact is, iand is even mentioned in game on multiple occasions as well as the binding coils, that the allagans are in a far far more advanced state of technology than even the garleans can ever hope to achieve.

The burden of proof is on you to to make a case of lalafells or miqo'tes being created by the allagans, because you're the one that's trying to make a point that an allagan-synthesized race is feasible from from a story point perspective (unless you want to give them exclusive MSQ) from the ground up.



Remember that we have different factions of dragons. Nidhogg specifically has excess rancor toward Ishgard (not elezens, don't mix these two together) for their betrayal. Bahamut has been driven to insanity by the Allagans and their inhumane treatment and imprisonment of the dragons of Meryicida. The Allagans are objectively immoral people with their experiments and ultimately causing the Fourth Umbral Era, a point that even Y'shtola agrees on during your quests in Ayz Llya. Even if there were any true allagans that were somehow alive, I'd doubt anyone would want anything to do with their schemes, let alone work with them.

You and everyone seems so caught up in little things. The Allagans were way too advanced not to attempt to create something so beautiful and magnificent. They could be more, so much more and its not even hard. You and others just don't ever look at the big picture. There is so much this potential has and what it could have if you just open your mind to it.

Sure, it seemed silly but it was just one of many ideas you could come up with.

And to repeat myself, for this race to even work, they'd need to be given special snowflake treatment, which is unbalanced compared to other races. The race you are trying to bring to life is currently Padjal status (since it wouldn't make sense for hundreds/thousands to appear without warning, whereas it makes sense for the current six races because... they're born).

News: If you already didn't notice the entire 2.0 story was us being special snowflakes already.

(I do agree with you a bit regarding the Au Ra and how they're... there from the start of the story, yet they don't appear until more than halfway into the story... But I don't think the 'solution' to the current plot holes with the new race is to promote another race that would have even bigger plot holes or potential plot holes.)

Indeed, I don't see anything different with this. You would realize the real story when you unlocked the race. Only people who unlocked it would know to begin with.

But eh.. I really DO not think that is Padjal status. White Magic and White Mages themselves are godly in their power. Its not like these guys will be able to pull people back.

Seriously though. These guys are Handmaidens and Maids, they are strong beings but. They are not godly by any means.

[Frederick22]

Did the primal bahamut atack the allagans once he scape? ehh NO, he didnt care or notice the difference between llagans and orther eorzean people.

My point that dragons hate man or better said, they dont trust men, beacause of what happened with the allagans and Ishgard( that was a total remind for them ) Dragons kills withouth care, they dont care if you are Ishgard, allag or non of them.
If you guys did MSQ you would notice that the man and dragon started to war just when man showed up on cortheas before Shiva. Beacuse of all what man did, they dont trust them and even hate them. when I was on dravania, the dragons did care if I was an sihardian or not? no they tried to kill me anyway. "As long as it fits in the story it makes sense"


Thats my point, dragons man, I mean all spoken races.

and speaking of this possible new race, I dont care what is gonna be, if the manage to solve with the Auras, they will solve it again

[Nestama]

News: If you already didn't notice the entire 2.0 story was us being special snowflakes already.

You know exactly what I mean. Like Padjal, what you want isn't "born" (I'm sure we don't even have the Echo until some point in our characters lives). It is made. For hundreds/thousands to suddenly show up at {starting city} does not make sense and would make the Allag empire appear as incredibly incompetent with their creations.

Did the primal bahamut atack the allagans once he scape? ehh NO, he didnt care or notice the difference between llagans and orther eorzean people.

He was trapped inside of Dalamud for 5000 years, forced to stay summoned by his tortured thralls. Also, the Allagan empire used to be in Eorzea (Crystal Tower and Azyz Lla prove this).

[Nektulos-Tuor]

You know exactly what I mean. Like Padjal, what you want isn't "born" (I'm sure we don't even have the Echo until some point in our characters lives). It is made. For hundreds/thousands to suddenly show up at {starting city} does not make sense and would make the Allag empire appear as incredibly incompetent with their creations.

Like the Au Ra? That didn't make sense, it happened. Guess we are both confuzzled here.

If they were not, how did they fail?

These beings are born. Depending on your views of born. I consider born the creation of new life.

They did not just appear out of nothing, they were MADE.

[Nestama]

Au Ra have existed (by being born) long before Shiva was born. They have been to Eorzea in the past (Zantetsuken is rumoured to have been brought to Eorzea from the eastern lands, by an Auri warrior). The Auri people most likely avoided going to Eorzea for a time due to the Calamity and Garlean threat. With Gaius dead, it was safe for them to travel the seas and open market again (though that's to explain the after. For the before, you could just be that one guy from the village who wanted to go on an adventure).
Padjal are few because they are Hyurs blessed by the Shroud.
Your robots supposedly require living human specimens to be assimilated into a robotic body. I just can't see this working, as it would imply the Allagan people who designed them built them with major flaws. Where would they even come from, anyway (I'm getting to that point where I'm repeating myself and it is really aggravating me)?