NIN -- how does everyone else feel we're doing?

[sackm]

pretty much every A3S clear has used a ninja, that says a lot about their current place in endgame. hint: they're more desirable than mnks

[Leonus]

I agree, increase dancing edge time so we can actually use aeolian edge, without a warrior you will constantly be spamming DE while other classes are using there full dps combos,,,why should we have to be stuck applying a debuff, it should be combined into a skill or the duration is doubled.

Speaking from a drg and nin perspective, they both are applying their debuff. DRG has to apply it regardless, since they are the only ones who can and it's a part of their chaos thrust combo, while nin can skip it with the addition of a war in the party. Mnk has to apply their own debuff too unless they have another mnk, if someone else could apply it (like drk should be able to), mnks would skip their debuff for higher dps as well. To me, just basing an argument off that seems pretty weak.

[Atreides]

Speaking from a drg and nin perspective, they both are applying their debuff. DRG has to apply it regardless, since they are the only ones who can and it's a part of their chaos thrust combo, while nin can skip it with the addition of a war in the party. Mnk has to apply their own debuff too unless they have another mnk, if someone else could apply it (like drk should be able to), mnks would skip their debuff for higher dps as well. To me, just basing an argument off that seems pretty weak.

I wouldn't mind having to apply it if it was actually tied to another combo but all 3 combo finisher are tied to Gust Slash and that really sucks. :/
Why didn't they let us Armor Crush after Shadow Fang instead? That would be way smoother.
So we could extend Huton after applying shadow fang and go the Dancing Edge route after that, instead of being in a situation where shadow fang is about to go off but so are Huton and Dancing edge.
It just feels clunky as hell. :/

[MiruWest]

I wouldn't mind having to apply it if it was actually tied to another combo but all 3 combo finisher are tied to Gust Slash and that really sucks. :/
Why didn't they let us Armor Crush after Shadow Fang instead? That would be way smoother.

Not to mention it was shown https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=2m56s that it indeed combo off Shadow Fang... wonder what was there reason for change.

[Aiselia]

other classes are using there full dps combos

A monk will never be using their full DPS combos unless they're with another monk in the party for some reason (who then has to be the one applying DK, for a DPS loss on them).

Dragon Kick is the worse DPS option over Bootshine because Bootshine is 150 potency with guaranteed crit positional while DK is 100 potency with 150 potency positional and chance to crit.

At least you have another class that can apply your debuff.

The more people complain about having to apply their own debuff without a warrior or about how tough it is to have to hit two predictable positionals every what, 20 seconds, the less it looks like they really need to be buffed to compare to other melee, because they just look spoiled.

You are the only melee that has another class that can apply your debuff for you. You are the only melee with rare AND predictable positionals. Not only predictable, but controllable, too. You're on Gust Slash and about to do AE but the boss puts AOE down on his butt? You get to move to the side and hit AC and at least hit your positional. Monks don't. Dragoons don't.

[Pluvia]

A monk will never be using their full DPS combos unless they're with another monk in the party for some reason (who then has to be the one applying DK, for a DPS loss on them).

Dragon Kick is the worse DPS option over Bootshine because Bootshine is 150 potency with guaranteed crit positional while DK is 100 potency with 150 potency positional and chance to crit.

At least you have another class that can apply your debuff.

The more people complain about having to apply their own debuff without a warrior or about how tough it is to have to hit two predictable positionals every what, 20 seconds, the less it looks like they really need to be buffed to compare to other melee, because they just look spoiled.

You are the only melee that has another class that can apply your debuff for you. You are the only melee with rare AND predictable positionals. Not only predictable, but controllable, too. You're on Gust Slash and about to do AE but the boss puts AOE down on his butt? You get to move to the side and hit AC and at least hit your positional. Monks don't. Dragoons don't.

Yet we have the most punishing positional of them all Trick Attack which isn't only a screw up for your own rotation but a complete screw up for the whole raid and needs to be changed.

Just to give prospective on the whole matter only major thing i can see needing changed right now is Trick attack and TP issues for the 100th time i've had to reply to things in these threads
But Atreides does have a point Monk is a lot more fluid in its normal rotation then ninja. Ninjutsu is like hitting a road stop to weigh in as a truck at least every 60s if you don't have bad spikes before you can continue on.

[Aiselia]

Yet we have the most punishing positional of them all Trick Attack

Every 60 seconds. And you can delay it for up to 10 seconds after Suiton if sudden AOE happens.

[Pluvia]

Guess you've never heard of the phrase shit happens I've had tanks who've had to dodge at the most inopportune times so why should ninja be punished when no other melee is punished for missing positionals anymore except for a loss of potency. So can we have some kind of fail mechanic for Battle Litany?

[Allyrion]

Yet we have the most punishing positional of them all Trick Attack which isn't only a screw up for your own rotation but a complete screw up for the whole raid needs to be changed.

The personal potency lost is understandable.
The Vulnerability Up shouldn't be tied to the positional though.
I've forgiven it up to now because it's only once a minute, but in the end you're right.

Effect being tied to positionals is the old drg design, which wasn't good.
You shouldn't lose that raid CD for a missed positional.

That and TP are probably what NIN needs most.
Well not counting Mudra lag, which everyone agrees is an issue. Just not sure if that'll be fixed soon.

[ChaozK]

Guess you've never heard of the phrase shit happens. So can we have some kind of fail mechanic for Battle Litany?

Funnily enough, i am hearing a lot of frustration from BLMs/SMNs when they happen to step out of BL's max range and miss the buff. I always chuckle a bit inside, lolmage