Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Bishop81]

This is beginning to sound more like a personal problem with the game community than it does a problem with mechanics the game provides. And you think somehow changing this dynamic will suddenly change the community's behavior.

...

Nope, it will not solve world hunger either.

But it will give people one less reason to hate each other.

I'm not trying to fix every social problem in the game. I'm just trying to decrease one.

Just because it doesn't fix everything, doesn't mean it isn't worth implementing.

Except FFXIV is an MMORPG; not a single player game. The kinds of mechanics and balancing that goes into single player games is totally different, because the world centers around one player.

So you are suddenly the definitive authority on what MMORPGs must be?

How exactly do you propose SE goes about doing that?

If a player has the ability to positively impact the group's activity by doing something (e.g. finishing a task faster), then they have the ability to negatively impact it by not doing it. (e.g. causing a task to take longer than it could have taken)

The only way for a player to not get in the way of something is if they have no power or involvement at all. (i.e. They are only a spectator)

Yes, I have considered that.

The crux of the matter is "obligation". Can I give away all the money in my wallet to some dude on the street and make his day better? Sure. But no one will fault me if I don't.

Current MMO group content involves a lot of "obligation", you must do this, you must do that, ...

Imagine group content where you don't have to do anything you don't want to - the only one who will suffer the negative consequences will be you; if you choose to. It will be nice if you did but no skin off anyone else's back if you don't.

[R-Kine]

I'd settle for rehauling the cross class system. It makes me squint every time I see Savage blade and skull sunder in the actions menu. Who the heck came up with this idea and how is it that nobody corrected them? Why is it still here 2 years later?

[Hix]

Imagine group content where you don't have to do anything you don't want to. It will be nice if you did but no skin off anyone else's back if you don't.

People on this thread have repeatedly told you what that "content" would look like. Faceroll easy to the point where it doesn't matter what you do because it has no practical effect on the outcome of what is going on. If you think that there exists a way to make group content where the presence of your group mates is completely irrelevant, while still being fun and having any kind of challenge, then you need to step up and provide some examples.

[Kelg]

Here's an idea: what if the choices given to you were actually viable to clear content? Yes we do have some "choices" now, but most of the alternate choices you can use aren't even meant to be used(savage blade, etc.). For some reason people think if there are skill choices, you won't be able to clear the content with anything but the best build... It's not like they would make skills that do no damage and have no advantage to using them. Sure, you might not have the "optimal build", and deal slightly less DPS than someone else, but it happens anyway when people mess up(or don't even try) their rotation. Give us some variety already.

[DreadRabbit]

I'm not trying to fix every social problem in the game. I'm just trying to decrease one.

You also keep painting a very broad picture of what that "one" problem is without providing real concrete solutions.

Again, I played Mabinogi for years. And that's the only MMO I can think of that comes anywhere close to these ideals you're talking about. But that game was built from the ground up from the very start around: 1. No raiding. 2. No classes. 3. Focus more on character customization and "fantasy life" with combat tossed in. And even that game if you wanted to have access to everything, you still had to do "content you didn't want to do." Didn't like fighting and only wanted life skills? Awesome, fine. But you want to get to new areas or access flying? Too bad, you have to do combat oriented story.

Online games are all about give and take: if there's content you don't want to do, you simply just don't participate in it. Just recognize you're not going to get the perks that come with doing it. You instead focus on what you want to do and work with that instead. Changing combat won't change that fact. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head saying "You have to raid!" No one is saying you have to use DF. If you really hate the negatives of either culture, that's what FCs or friends or both are for. Or again, petition to have NPC dungeon options instead.

Trying to take a game already almost two years old and completely changing it on its head isn't going to happen. Now if you or anyone who agrees with you has concrete examples of the skills you'd like to see or how a skill tree could work with what's already here, then you're more likely to get what you want. But two years in you are not going to get Square to flat out throw away the combat system this game is built upon. Your best bet is something that fixes the parts that are currently broken (certain skills are useless right now. Why is that and how can we fix them?) or does something to enhance our role interchangeability (If you pick to be a DPS tank, you can suddenly use cross class skills from Classes ABC instead of DEF, but not both, as an example).

[Bishop81]

People on this thread have repeatedly told you what that "content" would look like. Faceroll easy to the point where it doesn't matter what you do because it has no practical effect on the outcome of what is going on. If you think that there exists a way to make group content where the presence of your group mates is completely irrelevant, while still being fun and having any kind of challenge, then you need to step up and provide some examples.

I have have explained that that is bull.

Difficulty has nothing to do with "team mates taking the fall for your blunders".

Online games are all about give and take: if there's content you don't want to do, you simply just don't participate in it. Just recognize you're not going to get the perks that come with doing it. You instead focus on what you want to do and work with that instead. Changing combat won't change that fact. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head saying "You have to raid!" No one is saying you have to use DF. If you really hate the negatives of either culture, that's what FCs or friends or both are for. Or again, petition to have NPC dungeon options instead.

Except there is no worthwhile combat content outside of raiding.

So unless you are a huge fan of crafting and/or gathering, you have effectively no content if you don't wish to subject yourself to the hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding.

Raid or die. Worked well for WoW recently I heard. Dropped to 5.6 million.

Trying to take a game already almost two years old and completely changing it on its head isn't going to happen. Now if you or anyone who agrees with you has concrete examples of the skills you'd like to see or how a skill tree could work with what's already here, then you're more likely to get what you want. But two years in you are not going to get Square to flat out throw away the combat system this game is built upon. Your best bet is something that fixes the parts that are currently broken (certain skills are useless right now. Why is that and how can we fix them?) or does something to enhance our role interchangeability (If you pick to be a DPS tank, you can suddenly use cross class skills from Classes ABC instead of DEF, but not both, as an example).

I'm not trying to change the game. I wish to add to it.

You can raid all you want. I really don't give a rat's bottom.

You also keep painting a very broad picture of what that "one" problem is without providing real concrete solutions.

You want concrete? Fine.

The existing Class system is perfectly adequate for my purposes.
Bar Classes from raids - they already practically are, so no change there.
Add Class-only skills via the likes of "skill books" (earned via quests, mob drops, seals, ... etc.) that may or may not be restricted to specific classes. These skills can counter abilities/traits/mechanics of open world monsters (spawned on-demand or free roaming).
Add Class-only gear that can help negate specific monster attacks (e.g. Blunt Resistance, which is already in-game but not used), and/or boost specific player abilities (e.g. longer sprint duration)
You can kill any monster with the right cross-Class skills and gear solo but it would be easier with a friend or 2. A randomly stranger could help you out (and maybe get an additional drop for himself; i.e. it has no impact on the reward you get) without feel obligated to perform to a specific standard - remember he/she will just be doing you a favor.

It's not really my job to design the game for SE. So take this as you will.

[Gilthas]

So unless you are a huge fan of crafting and/or gathering, you have effectively no content if you don't wish to subject yourself to the hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding.

Lol, getting tomestones is now "hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding"?

Only Alexander Savage is truly hard, just like only Coil was truly hard before it.

[Erepio]

You want concrete? Fine.

The existing Class system is perfectly adequate for my purposes.
Bar Classes from raids - they already practically are, so no change there.
Add Class-only skills via the likes for "skill books" (earned via quests, mob drops, seals, ... etc.) that may or may not be restricted to specific classes. These skills can counter abilities/traits/mechanics of open world monsters (spawned on-demand or free roaming).
Add Class-only gear that can help negate specific monster attacks (e.g. Blunt Resistance, which is already in-game but not used), and/or boost specific player abilities (e.g. longer sprint duration)
You can kill any monster with the right cross-Class skills and gear solo but it would be easier with a friend or 2. A randomly stranger could help you out (and maybe get an additional drop for himself; i.e. it has no impact on the reward you get) without feel obligated to perform to a specific standard - remember he/she will just be doing you a favor.

It's not really my job to design the game for SE. So take this as you will

yeah let them use the system they effectively are removing from the game lol, so ur plan is to exclude the 3 new jobs (and basicly every new job from now on) from open world content and a big part of "character progression"?

not to mention existing jobs like scholar will also get screwed over since the class is a dps while their job is healer

the balancing of the new skills will also be a nightmare and u will have ppl wanting you to have specific skills in order to let you in parties that go up against this new mobs you talk about


you make it sound like balancing is done for raiders and the "toxicity" is only in raids, guess what its not, ppl will want you to be in a specific set up, be it gear or skills, even in open world just look at FFXI..heck most of the time, from experience, the "hardcore" raiders are the laid back ppl and the ones wanting u to be in laughable high ilvl are the ppl the are plain bad or ignorant

[Gilthas]

you make it sound like balancing is only done for the raiders, guess what its not, ppl will want you to be in a specific set up, be it gear or skills, even in open world just look at FFXI

Not only that, but you don't even need party content for people to want classes to be balanced, or else you'll get things like: "That Archer can kill X way faster than my Lancer", "Conjurers can keep themselves alive much easier than my Rogue", etc, etc.

[Bishop81]

Lol, getting tomestones is now "hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding"?

Only Alexander Savage is truly hard, just like only Coil was truly hard before it.

I still have to deal with "hypercompetitive" raiders in the like of Expert and DF-Alex.

yeah let them use the system they effectively are removing from the game lol, so ur plan is to exclude the 3 new jobs (and basicly every new job from now on) from open world content and a big part of "character progression"?

not to mention existing jobs like scholar will also get screwed over since the class is a dps while their job is healer

So? Just because they are removing it due to YoshiP's love of WoW and raiding tunnel vision, doesn't mean it can't be good with a few changes.

Jobs are for raiding. You can "progress" through raids if you insist on using a Job. Hey, they told me to use a Job if I wanted to raid, don't see anything wrong with me demanding you use a Class if you want to kill those new mobs.

If you really like the fairies that much, no harm asking SE to recolor one for use by ACN with abilities geared toward open world play.

the balancing of the new skills will also be a nightmare and u will have ppl wanting you to have specific skills in order to let you in parties that go up against this new mobs you talk about


you make it sound like balancing is done for raiders and the "toxicity" is only in raids, guess what its not, ppl will want you to be in a specific set up, be it gear or skills, even in open world just look at FFXI..heck most of the time, from experience, the "hardcore" raiders are the laid back ppl and the ones wanting u to be in laughable high ilvl are the ppl the are plain bad or ignorant

You won't need to party. You can kill any of the new mobs solo with the right skill loadout and gear. Grouping is 100% optional (and non-obligatory) - nice if someone wants to help you out; no big deal if they don't. That's the beauty of it.

I'm not trying to recreate FFXI - never played it.