Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[sackm]

people in this game cant even do their basic rotation and you want to give them more options?

Great players already EASILY stand out in this game. the difference between a player optimizing their shit to the nth degree versus average joe in DF is staggering.

[R-Kine]

I'd settle for rehauling the cross class system. It makes me squint every time I see Savage blade and skull sunder in the actions menu. Who the heck came up with this idea and how is it that nobody corrected them? Why is it still here 2 years later?

[Kelg]

Here's an idea: what if the choices given to you were actually viable to clear content? Yes we do have some "choices" now, but most of the alternate choices you can use aren't even meant to be used(savage blade, etc.). For some reason people think if there are skill choices, you won't be able to clear the content with anything but the best build... It's not like they would make skills that do no damage and have no advantage to using them. Sure, you might not have the "optimal build", and deal slightly less DPS than someone else, but it happens anyway when people mess up(or don't even try) their rotation. Give us some variety already.

[DreadRabbit]

I'm not trying to fix every social problem in the game. I'm just trying to decrease one.

You also keep painting a very broad picture of what that "one" problem is without providing real concrete solutions.

Again, I played Mabinogi for years. And that's the only MMO I can think of that comes anywhere close to these ideals you're talking about. But that game was built from the ground up from the very start around: 1. No raiding. 2. No classes. 3. Focus more on character customization and "fantasy life" with combat tossed in. And even that game if you wanted to have access to everything, you still had to do "content you didn't want to do." Didn't like fighting and only wanted life skills? Awesome, fine. But you want to get to new areas or access flying? Too bad, you have to do combat oriented story.

Online games are all about give and take: if there's content you don't want to do, you simply just don't participate in it. Just recognize you're not going to get the perks that come with doing it. You instead focus on what you want to do and work with that instead. Changing combat won't change that fact. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head saying "You have to raid!" No one is saying you have to use DF. If you really hate the negatives of either culture, that's what FCs or friends or both are for. Or again, petition to have NPC dungeon options instead.

Trying to take a game already almost two years old and completely changing it on its head isn't going to happen. Now if you or anyone who agrees with you has concrete examples of the skills you'd like to see or how a skill tree could work with what's already here, then you're more likely to get what you want. But two years in you are not going to get Square to flat out throw away the combat system this game is built upon. Your best bet is something that fixes the parts that are currently broken (certain skills are useless right now. Why is that and how can we fix them?) or does something to enhance our role interchangeability (If you pick to be a DPS tank, you can suddenly use cross class skills from Classes ABC instead of DEF, but not both, as an example).

[Bishop81]

People on this thread have repeatedly told you what that "content" would look like. Faceroll easy to the point where it doesn't matter what you do because it has no practical effect on the outcome of what is going on. If you think that there exists a way to make group content where the presence of your group mates is completely irrelevant, while still being fun and having any kind of challenge, then you need to step up and provide some examples.

I have have explained that that is bull.

Difficulty has nothing to do with "team mates taking the fall for your blunders".

Online games are all about give and take: if there's content you don't want to do, you simply just don't participate in it. Just recognize you're not going to get the perks that come with doing it. You instead focus on what you want to do and work with that instead. Changing combat won't change that fact. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head saying "You have to raid!" No one is saying you have to use DF. If you really hate the negatives of either culture, that's what FCs or friends or both are for. Or again, petition to have NPC dungeon options instead.

Except there is no worthwhile combat content outside of raiding.

So unless you are a huge fan of crafting and/or gathering, you have effectively no content if you don't wish to subject yourself to the hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding.

Raid or die. Worked well for WoW recently I heard. Dropped to 5.6 million.

Trying to take a game already almost two years old and completely changing it on its head isn't going to happen. Now if you or anyone who agrees with you has concrete examples of the skills you'd like to see or how a skill tree could work with what's already here, then you're more likely to get what you want. But two years in you are not going to get Square to flat out throw away the combat system this game is built upon. Your best bet is something that fixes the parts that are currently broken (certain skills are useless right now. Why is that and how can we fix them?) or does something to enhance our role interchangeability (If you pick to be a DPS tank, you can suddenly use cross class skills from Classes ABC instead of DEF, but not both, as an example).

I'm not trying to change the game. I wish to add to it.

You can raid all you want. I really don't give a rat's bottom.

You also keep painting a very broad picture of what that "one" problem is without providing real concrete solutions.

You want concrete? Fine.

The existing Class system is perfectly adequate for my purposes.
Bar Classes from raids - they already practically are, so no change there.
Add Class-only skills via the likes of "skill books" (earned via quests, mob drops, seals, ... etc.) that may or may not be restricted to specific classes. These skills can counter abilities/traits/mechanics of open world monsters (spawned on-demand or free roaming).
Add Class-only gear that can help negate specific monster attacks (e.g. Blunt Resistance, which is already in-game but not used), and/or boost specific player abilities (e.g. longer sprint duration)
You can kill any monster with the right cross-Class skills and gear solo but it would be easier with a friend or 2. A randomly stranger could help you out (and maybe get an additional drop for himself; i.e. it has no impact on the reward you get) without feel obligated to perform to a specific standard - remember he/she will just be doing you a favor.

It's not really my job to design the game for SE. So take this as you will.

[Gilthas]

So unless you are a huge fan of crafting and/or gathering, you have effectively no content if you don't wish to subject yourself to the hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding.

Lol, getting tomestones is now "hypercompetitive atmosphere of raiding"?

Only Alexander Savage is truly hard, just like only Coil was truly hard before it.

[DreadRabbit]

You want concrete? Fine.

Thank you. Now those are legitimate ideas. I don't agree with them, but at least it's more than other people here just saying "we don't have personalization, give us more!" No you may not be paid to design for SE, but having had to make amateur stuff before I can say it doesn't help at all for people to tell you "you need x" without giving you an example of why or how x could be done or used. Devs aren't magicians that can read our minds.

So I'll say it again: thank you. I mean that sincerely.

An advantage to specs is not requiring a person to fully level another job just to play another role. Minor, but important.

What game have you played where with specs where a DPS could suddenly be a healer if an emergency during the fight rises? Or a tank? Most games with specs if you wanted to play a different role, you didn't have to just level up a new class. You had to level another character entirely to play that role.

Specs limit you to more of the same. You don't ever step out of your DPS box (or tank box or healer box) for even two seconds with specs. Now could they completely rework the idea of specs so that what I just mentioned is possible? Yeah...but why? It's already possible now. What would specs bring to the table that we don't already have beyond number crunching?

[Erepio]

You want concrete? Fine.

The existing Class system is perfectly adequate for my purposes.
Bar Classes from raids - they already practically are, so no change there.
Add Class-only skills via the likes for "skill books" (earned via quests, mob drops, seals, ... etc.) that may or may not be restricted to specific classes. These skills can counter abilities/traits/mechanics of open world monsters (spawned on-demand or free roaming).
Add Class-only gear that can help negate specific monster attacks (e.g. Blunt Resistance, which is already in-game but not used), and/or boost specific player abilities (e.g. longer sprint duration)
You can kill any monster with the right cross-Class skills and gear solo but it would be easier with a friend or 2. A randomly stranger could help you out (and maybe get an additional drop for himself; i.e. it has no impact on the reward you get) without feel obligated to perform to a specific standard - remember he/she will just be doing you a favor.

It's not really my job to design the game for SE. So take this as you will

yeah let them use the system they effectively are removing from the game lol, so ur plan is to exclude the 3 new jobs (and basicly every new job from now on) from open world content and a big part of "character progression"?

not to mention existing jobs like scholar will also get screwed over since the class is a dps while their job is healer

the balancing of the new skills will also be a nightmare and u will have ppl wanting you to have specific skills in order to let you in parties that go up against this new mobs you talk about


you make it sound like balancing is done for raiders and the "toxicity" is only in raids, guess what its not, ppl will want you to be in a specific set up, be it gear or skills, even in open world just look at FFXI..heck most of the time, from experience, the "hardcore" raiders are the laid back ppl and the ones wanting u to be in laughable high ilvl are the ppl the are plain bad or ignorant

[Gilthas]

you make it sound like balancing is only done for the raiders, guess what its not, ppl will want you to be in a specific set up, be it gear or skills, even in open world just look at FFXI

Not only that, but you don't even need party content for people to want classes to be balanced, or else you'll get things like: "That Archer can kill X way faster than my Lancer", "Conjurers can keep themselves alive much easier than my Rogue", etc, etc.

[LandricFrey]

Not only that, but you don't even need party content for people to want classes to be balanced, or else you'll get things like: "That Archer can kill X way faster than my Lancer", "Conjurers can keep themselves alive much easier than my Rogue", etc, etc.

People complain about needing nerfs and buffs now, that kind of thing is always present. If this was a serious PVP game, I'd agree.

With the addition of the three jobs with no class, I was hoping SE was axing the cross-class system for something better. Nope, still here, still useless, and still fodder for people to argue what job customization looks like. It's really the only game with the system in it that I don't like.