How can we make Bards and Machinist better?

[Kayote]

And if you don't sing, don't be mad when you're excluded.

I do sing, and Ninja's Goad and Smokescreen, MNK's Mantra, and DRG's Battle Litany ... none lose DPS for it

Your utility is why people bring you to a fight.

Glad you see the problem...

[RyuDragnier]

Glad you see the problem...

Not really a problem. It means you're needed, such as how MNKs were always brought along with BRDs simply due to Dragon Kick and Mantra.

[StouterTaru]

I do sing, and Ninja's Goad and Smokescreen, MNK's Mantra, and DRG's Battle Litany ... none lose DPS for it



Glad you see the problem...

None of those are game changers like Paeon and Ballad are. They are more like Requiem, which doesn't lower dps (except for the cast time).

Having unique abilities that make you valuable to a raid is a problem?

[Kayote]

None of those are game changers like Paeon and Ballad are. They are more like Requiem, which doesn't lower dps (except for the cast time).

Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used. Other DPS get all their buffs, no penalties what so ever, some are even reusable, part of rotation, and instant ... but lets pretend thats still balanced.

Regardless thats not the point ... we arent support, we arent "utility," those dont exist... we're DPS, that is all I said. The rest is for another of the 234897 threads already discussing the same.

Having unique abilities that make you valuable to a raid is a problem?

When youre only really useful for newby raids trying to get a clear and learn mechanics and your actual role is getting purposefully nerfed because of it? Yeah, it becomes a problem. Of course, threads like these who just throw in the "utility" or "support" role like it isnt completely and utterly wrong doesnt help.

[Gilraen]

Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used.

So lets pretend you aren't wearing your Job stone? Okay. Admittedly, this only works for Bard as Machinist has no class to build from, but that's 'beside the point'. Remember that all Bard adds to archer is one loose attack, three stance attacks and several support abilities (and whatever bonuses being Bard gives). Not losing much there and you get back 5 cross-class slots than can cross-class anything cross-class-able. I can't imagine anyone would take you seriously, though, given the prevailing stigma classes have. You might get instantly /votekick'd the moment anyone notices your party icon. Noone wants an archer, they want a Bard. And not because of their awesome damage potential.

[StouterTaru]

Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used. Other DPS get all their buffs, no penalties what so ever, some are even reusable, part of rotation, and instant ... but lets pretend thats still balanced.

The other skills are instant cast, but they're not a full minute duration. So the only thing that lowers BRD dps is the stuff that isn't needed? So why is it an issue? Freeze, Sleep, and Surecast lower BLM dps, where's the outrage over how broken they are?