Things I'm starting to hate on AST

[nyttyn]

I'm only level 50 and I can already feel the heal output difference in comparison to where my Scholar was at that level. And unlike Scholar, I'm not going to get any new skills that will really help my healing output...


Could someone give me some of what Vlady is on? Because it sounds like really good stuff if it make you capable of completely disregarding reality.

[Yurimi]

If you would have showed me the faust parse I would gladly have not pointed out the difference in a dummy and Faust. And after the 5 damage up buff as an Astro I guess I can say that the white mage has to take over helping to heal.



If you cannot understand the difference between talking about normal Alexander and Savage then I really believe you are the one making yourself look like a fool and if you have issues healing alex normal with 2 astrologians then I would question your skill over anything else.

Yes when we start to raid against training dummies I will gladly take your advice on maximizing my damage output since two astrologians will be able to full dps during this fight.

Once more I only said that astrologian can keep up with white mage as a healer until you consider cooldowns then we should not be on par with the white mage because strongest on demand healing power is the realm of the white mage and its realm only.

Our utility buff wise is above the scholar which it should be. Instead of trying to always downplay the astrologian go out and do a few parses yourself with a dragoon and use balance on him once he uses his cooldowns (yes even on a training dummy.) and you will see where I get my numbers from.

The Astrologian has healed all content so far in this game and the bad attempts to downplay a job that very strong and only needs cooldown changes is silly.

can you just stop... it cant keep up with white mage there is already almost a 7% gap in healing without running ANY cooldowns. My partner who always dragoons with me in dungeons for our roulettes guess what after the dungeon the parse didnt even look as if they were getting any buffs... even with perfect uptime on the best card its a 5% increase in dps on her 1200 dps thats around 60 and thats if you draw balance every 30s and only balance time dilation and celestial oposition that now its a 62 dps increase over a run. I lose time I could dps casting heals and using cards. I can tell you right now my dps loss as an astro vs sch or whm in a dungeon is not going to be offset even by god teir luck.so my healing is sub par my dps is sub par and my support is more reliably offered by other jobs. I bring a paltry 5% increase to the party IF i can get the same card every single time. Its not a very strong healer its a sub par healer that doesnt know what it wants.

[Luvbunny]

OK, the biggest problem with Astro, it's not that their healing is slightly a bit less, but their supposed "specialty trick" is REALLY REALLY BAD in comparison to other job's "buffing" abilities. It's too short, too random, and on a really long cooldown. SE should REALLY take a LONG HARD look at their older game, FFXI, with EXCELLENT support roles on Bard + Corsair + Geomancer + Red Mage. Copy some of those and tailor to fit for Astro, and call it a day.

1. WHM - superior healing, no contest is the best healer per mana in the game, good DPS, great AOE healers and lots of burst heal. If you just want to heal + HOT, and occasional DPS, WHM is the job for you. MP management is an issue
2. SCH - good shield + damage prevention healer, fairy has WAY BETTER buffs compared to AST, you CAN CONTROL the buffs too. MP management is a bit easier due to Aetherflow, DPS is solid.

How to fix ASTRO's dumb stupid card trick:
1. Narrow it down to 4 types of buffs: damage reduction (physical + magical), damage up, refresh, skill cooldown reduction.
2. Make those buffs last 20 seconds, on 30 seconds timer draw. You can now CHOOSE which of the 4 you want to draw.
3. Modify the royal road and shuffle, and change it to, one abilities extend the duration by 10 seconds, on 90 seconds timer. The other ability will make any buffs AOE, but reducing it to 10 seconds AOE, also on 90 seconds timer, potency remain the same.
4. Reduce MP cost on some the spells.
5. Let Nocturnal's shield to scale up and critical, similar to how Scholar's shield work.
6. Change Lightspeed to last 15 seconds and on 60 seconds CD, identical to WHMs divine seal. This is our "oh shyait our DPS are too dumb to function" button.
7. Change Essential Dignity to 30 seconds.

Now ASTRO is your HEALER who can BUFFS, who no longer deal with random, but with somewhat effective buffs in comparison to other jobs in the game. You can now be in control on your buffs, to ONE party members, or make it AOE but using an ability that is on a longer timer. Compare to fairy's buff, the fairy one is better since it is AOE, but AST buffs has more potency and you can control on which party member and which buffs to give.

[DarkmoonVael]

If you would have showed me the faust parse I would gladly have not pointed out the difference in a dummy and Faust. And after the 5 damage up buff as an Astro I guess I can say that the white mage has to take over helping to heal.



If you cannot understand the difference between talking about normal Alexander and Savage then I really believe you are the one making yourself look like a fool and if you have issues healing alex normal with 2 astrologians then I would question your skill over anything else.

Yes when we start to raid against training dummies I will gladly take your advice on maximizing my damage output since two astrologians will be able to full dps during this fight.

So you were the one to start talking about alexander normal and that a SCH should be doing 150 dps there. My response, like always, was to prove that you are factually incorrect, which seems to be the norm here. It seems to be something that everyone on these forums is doing in regards to your claims, that once again, you have been unable to substantiate. So how about some proof of these claims of yours then?

And just to let you know, Faust is part of the raid, and is not a training dummy like you claim. Myself and other SCH have got to 800DPS here as expalined in my post. If you can only get to 150 it is entirely reflective of you skill, or lack there of.

And i can tell you, balance will always do 10% extra damage unless enhanced, not like you claim when you pluck figures out of thin air to try and say you add 400 DPS to a dragoon in a raid. Credibility is something you really seem to lack. So how about you actually show us some of these figures for once?

[Vlady]

No matter what I do to prove it will be either ignored or picked apart and compared to other posts where I was talking about normal which I did specify normal so if you want to meet in game to discuss this over me wasting my 20 post count for trying to defend myself then we can always meet in game and show tests with buffed cards and without pretty easily. I am not a numbers math person so I am not going to throw formulas over something much more simple which is being in a group and parsing the highest dps job in the game with and without buffs for comparison which I did both as a test and in raids.

My credibility has nothing to do with the fact that astrologians are fine in dealing with all content in the game. You like to go beyond that and state we do not have the healing of a white mage or the personal dps of a scholar in which we should not because we were designed to boost other people's offensive/defensive abilities which is what we do well.

You can continue to downplay the job all you want but you do not have to play it. I am sorry that some people do not want to take the time to master the cards for proper use to maximize its effect but yes if you keep pulling them and randomly slinging them out you will be behind the other two jobs because astrologian does require tight monitoring of other jobs for max card use which is something the other jobs do not have to worry about.

[DarkmoonVael]

No matter what I do to prove it will be either ignored or picked apart and compared to other posts where I was talking about normal which I did specify normal so if you want to meet in game to discuss this over me wasting my 20 post count for trying to defend myself then we can always meet in game and show tests with buffed cards and without pretty easily. I am not a numbers math person so I am not going to throw formulas over something much more simple which is being in a group and parsing the highest dps job in the game with and without buffs for comparison which I did both as a test and in raids.

My credibility has nothing to do with the fact that astrologians are fine in dealing with all content in the game. You like to go beyond that and state we do not have the healing of a white mage or the personal dps of a scholar in which we should not because we were designed to boost other people's offensive/defensive abilities which is what we do well.

You can continue to downplay the job all you want but you do not have to play it. I am sorry that some people do not want to take the time to master the cards for proper use to maximize its effect but yes if you keep pulling them and randomly slinging them out you will be behind the other two jobs because astrologian does require tight monitoring of other jobs for max card use which is something the other jobs do not have to worry about.

Sorry Vlady, this response just does not fly. When asked to prove somehting, you retreat, and have the gaul to suggest someone pays money to transfer to your server, otherwise you wont back up what you say. How out of touch with reality are you? Seriously, just seriously stop.

If you dont want to "waste posts" then dont post, its that simple. You have the choice to post or not.

You posts are picked apart due to egregious misinformation you load them with. You havent been able to back up one claim you have made so far, and then wonder why people pick them apart when they are so glaringly wrong. People can do the same with mine if they want, this is the nature of posting on internet forums. If i make mistakes then someone will pick me up on them.

Now back to actual topic of AST. No matter which way you try and argue it, its HPS is significantly lower than both SCH and WHM. Im content where HOs thresholds are needed for progression, ASt just doesnt cut it like the other 2 healers. There is no validity to your notion that this should be the case sine it brings "buffs". Why is this? Well the buffs dont bring anything more significant than either a SCH or WHM buffs do. You can argue with imaginary figures of buffing dragoon dps by 400, or telling forum member thta you wont back up anythign you say unless they pay to transfer to your server all you like. SCH dps buff has consistency, it personal dps is beastly in a raid. WHM has commendable dps in raids even with it mp issues compared to SCH, but more than anything, a WHM facilitates SCh dps in raids. AST does non of this. It has RNG that can make no imoact on a fight what so ever, and lacks the healing throughput and cooldowns to facilitate other healers to dps.

Also, do not mistake underpowered equating a class that requires more skill, this is just a fallacious argument. AST is far easier to heal on than SCH, has less resources to deal with and has a very similar healing style to WHM, yet lacks the ability and power of WHM.

People want changes to AST to make them competitive with the other two healers. There really is no need to White Knight it to the extent that you are doing, especially when the claims can not be substantiated.

[Ghishlain]

No matter what I do to prove

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

[GideonHighmourn]

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

Essentially this. You have done nothing to prove what you claim and that's why people "pick apart" what you post, because most of it is filled with whimsical numbers that cannot possibly be achieved. Until you can actually prove what you're claiming, please refrain from posting misinformation as you continue to do when trying to "prove" what cards are capable or when comparing the healing potency or WHM vs AST.

It doesn't take "being good at math" to determine most of what you've claimed is patently false. Even with napkin math, at no point will cards add over 100DPS to an encounter unless that encounter is only 15 seconds long.

It doesn't take exhaustive testing to determine that AST isn't a better (or even equal, as you're claiming) healer than WHM, either. Just by comparing potency and CDs, it's easily determined that WHM is far better at both single-target healing and AoE healing.

You're credibility is nil at this point; the more you make wild claims like these, the less likely people are going to pay attention to anything you say. White knighting for a class does absolutely nothing for you or the class itself. As evidenced by many AST's, parses, and "napkin math", it's performance is lagging behind that of WHM/SCH.

The point of discussions like this isn't to demean AST or anyone playing it, but rather to provide feedback (as asked by SE) on the class in order to bring it's performance to a more competitive level. You seem to look at this as more of a personal attack, which it's not, and are completely unable to look at the subject objectively because of it.

Basically ... If you're going to make wild claims (cards adding 400 DPS, AST healing equal with WHM), be able to prove them. Otherwise, refrain from doing so or risk being called out on it as it is misinformation.

[Vlady]

Yes some people want to change how a job works and remake it into something else. Some people want it to have potency boost and white mage level healing cooldowns. You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility. You seem to have an issue with the astrologian filling that niche which it does and yes it will receive more fixes but please do not get your hopes up because the healing and buffs are what is fine about the job. It is the range of cards to an extent and the fact we lost our ability to be versatile in combat

And you can expect people to take you seriously when you think its a bad idea that white mage can outheal astrologians in oh shit situation? Sorry but that does not fly when you go from drama on the forums to actually playing the game.

[Luvbunny]

You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility.

Sorry, right now AST has NO NICHE at all, unless you call "novelty healer with nice animation" is a niche. The buffs are significantly worse than what SCH can bring. The randomness are just pure garbage. None of their so called stance is ANY GOOD at all. The damage improving is just a fallacy, too random to be meaningful when you compared to what Bard can bring. Versatility??? LMAO, you are joking right? AST cannot stance dance once the battle starts. When "shit hit the fans", AST would be totally wrecked, with no way to recover the party's HP fast enough, nor able to sustain itself in a long fight where MP management become a BIG issue. AST is AMAZING at content below level 50, at level 30, this job is THE BEST out there compare to the other two. At level 60, is the WORST healer in the game.

If the so called versatile is being able to switch to "WHM or SCH" stance to complement the other healer, then by all means, AST should be able to heal JUST AS GOOD as the other healer in the respective stance. As of right now, the so called "card buffs" are just nice to throw in once in awhile - since these buffs are just so small due to randomness to be able to be any good on level 60 content. SCH + Bard in a party is far far better set up if you want a buffer. There is no place for AST on endgame content. WHM + SCH + Bard is your three must have for the combination. AST cannot, will not, and never going to replace that set unless SE make changes and fix AST as the niche healer who can buff the party REALLY REALLY good!!

By the way, I like AST, and I want this job to become what has been promised. A healer who can buffs, really good, and can become either SCH or WHM depending on the stance, to complement the other healer. Right now, it's a job that cannot do all the things that have been "sold and advertised" before launch.