Things I'm starting to hate on AST

[DarkmoonVael]

No matter what I do to prove it will be either ignored or picked apart and compared to other posts where I was talking about normal which I did specify normal so if you want to meet in game to discuss this over me wasting my 20 post count for trying to defend myself then we can always meet in game and show tests with buffed cards and without pretty easily. I am not a numbers math person so I am not going to throw formulas over something much more simple which is being in a group and parsing the highest dps job in the game with and without buffs for comparison which I did both as a test and in raids.

My credibility has nothing to do with the fact that astrologians are fine in dealing with all content in the game. You like to go beyond that and state we do not have the healing of a white mage or the personal dps of a scholar in which we should not because we were designed to boost other people's offensive/defensive abilities which is what we do well.

You can continue to downplay the job all you want but you do not have to play it. I am sorry that some people do not want to take the time to master the cards for proper use to maximize its effect but yes if you keep pulling them and randomly slinging them out you will be behind the other two jobs because astrologian does require tight monitoring of other jobs for max card use which is something the other jobs do not have to worry about.

Sorry Vlady, this response just does not fly. When asked to prove somehting, you retreat, and have the gaul to suggest someone pays money to transfer to your server, otherwise you wont back up what you say. How out of touch with reality are you? Seriously, just seriously stop.

If you dont want to "waste posts" then dont post, its that simple. You have the choice to post or not.

You posts are picked apart due to egregious misinformation you load them with. You havent been able to back up one claim you have made so far, and then wonder why people pick them apart when they are so glaringly wrong. People can do the same with mine if they want, this is the nature of posting on internet forums. If i make mistakes then someone will pick me up on them.

Now back to actual topic of AST. No matter which way you try and argue it, its HPS is significantly lower than both SCH and WHM. Im content where HOs thresholds are needed for progression, ASt just doesnt cut it like the other 2 healers. There is no validity to your notion that this should be the case sine it brings "buffs". Why is this? Well the buffs dont bring anything more significant than either a SCH or WHM buffs do. You can argue with imaginary figures of buffing dragoon dps by 400, or telling forum member thta you wont back up anythign you say unless they pay to transfer to your server all you like. SCH dps buff has consistency, it personal dps is beastly in a raid. WHM has commendable dps in raids even with it mp issues compared to SCH, but more than anything, a WHM facilitates SCh dps in raids. AST does non of this. It has RNG that can make no imoact on a fight what so ever, and lacks the healing throughput and cooldowns to facilitate other healers to dps.

Also, do not mistake underpowered equating a class that requires more skill, this is just a fallacious argument. AST is far easier to heal on than SCH, has less resources to deal with and has a very similar healing style to WHM, yet lacks the ability and power of WHM.

People want changes to AST to make them competitive with the other two healers. There really is no need to White Knight it to the extent that you are doing, especially when the claims can not be substantiated.

[Vlady]

Yes some people want to change how a job works and remake it into something else. Some people want it to have potency boost and white mage level healing cooldowns. You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility. You seem to have an issue with the astrologian filling that niche which it does and yes it will receive more fixes but please do not get your hopes up because the healing and buffs are what is fine about the job. It is the range of cards to an extent and the fact we lost our ability to be versatile in combat

And you can expect people to take you seriously when you think its a bad idea that white mage can outheal astrologians in oh shit situation? Sorry but that does not fly when you go from drama on the forums to actually playing the game.

[Ghishlain]

No matter what I do to prove

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

[GideonHighmourn]

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

Essentially this. You have done nothing to prove what you claim and that's why people "pick apart" what you post, because most of it is filled with whimsical numbers that cannot possibly be achieved. Until you can actually prove what you're claiming, please refrain from posting misinformation as you continue to do when trying to "prove" what cards are capable or when comparing the healing potency or WHM vs AST.

It doesn't take "being good at math" to determine most of what you've claimed is patently false. Even with napkin math, at no point will cards add over 100DPS to an encounter unless that encounter is only 15 seconds long.

It doesn't take exhaustive testing to determine that AST isn't a better (or even equal, as you're claiming) healer than WHM, either. Just by comparing potency and CDs, it's easily determined that WHM is far better at both single-target healing and AoE healing.

You're credibility is nil at this point; the more you make wild claims like these, the less likely people are going to pay attention to anything you say. White knighting for a class does absolutely nothing for you or the class itself. As evidenced by many AST's, parses, and "napkin math", it's performance is lagging behind that of WHM/SCH.

The point of discussions like this isn't to demean AST or anyone playing it, but rather to provide feedback (as asked by SE) on the class in order to bring it's performance to a more competitive level. You seem to look at this as more of a personal attack, which it's not, and are completely unable to look at the subject objectively because of it.

Basically ... If you're going to make wild claims (cards adding 400 DPS, AST healing equal with WHM), be able to prove them. Otherwise, refrain from doing so or risk being called out on it as it is misinformation.

[nyttyn]

I'm only level 50 and I can already feel the heal output difference in comparison to where my Scholar was at that level. And unlike Scholar, I'm not going to get any new skills that will really help my healing output...


Could someone give me some of what Vlady is on? Because it sounds like really good stuff if it make you capable of completely disregarding reality.

[Luvbunny]

OK, the biggest problem with Astro, it's not that their healing is slightly a bit less, but their supposed "specialty trick" is REALLY REALLY BAD in comparison to other job's "buffing" abilities. It's too short, too random, and on a really long cooldown. SE should REALLY take a LONG HARD look at their older game, FFXI, with EXCELLENT support roles on Bard + Corsair + Geomancer + Red Mage. Copy some of those and tailor to fit for Astro, and call it a day.

1. WHM - superior healing, no contest is the best healer per mana in the game, good DPS, great AOE healers and lots of burst heal. If you just want to heal + HOT, and occasional DPS, WHM is the job for you. MP management is an issue
2. SCH - good shield + damage prevention healer, fairy has WAY BETTER buffs compared to AST, you CAN CONTROL the buffs too. MP management is a bit easier due to Aetherflow, DPS is solid.

How to fix ASTRO's dumb stupid card trick:
1. Narrow it down to 4 types of buffs: damage reduction (physical + magical), damage up, refresh, skill cooldown reduction.
2. Make those buffs last 20 seconds, on 30 seconds timer draw. You can now CHOOSE which of the 4 you want to draw.
3. Modify the royal road and shuffle, and change it to, one abilities extend the duration by 10 seconds, on 90 seconds timer. The other ability will make any buffs AOE, but reducing it to 10 seconds AOE, also on 90 seconds timer, potency remain the same.
4. Reduce MP cost on some the spells.
5. Let Nocturnal's shield to scale up and critical, similar to how Scholar's shield work.
6. Change Lightspeed to last 15 seconds and on 60 seconds CD, identical to WHMs divine seal. This is our "oh shyait our DPS are too dumb to function" button.
7. Change Essential Dignity to 30 seconds.

Now ASTRO is your HEALER who can BUFFS, who no longer deal with random, but with somewhat effective buffs in comparison to other jobs in the game. You can now be in control on your buffs, to ONE party members, or make it AOE but using an ability that is on a longer timer. Compare to fairy's buff, the fairy one is better since it is AOE, but AST buffs has more potency and you can control on which party member and which buffs to give.

[Cynfael]

Perhaps Vlady is actually playing The Chessmaster here and defending AST against all reason specifically to provoke further detailed examination of how AST is disadvantaged compared to the two other healer Jobs, thus increasing negative feedback for SE to review, with the ultimate goal of encouraging others to advance the cause of AST improvement.

That's the most generous interpretation I can think of, anyway.

[Ghishlain]

Perhaps Vlady is actually playing The Chessmaster here and defending AST against all reason specifically to provoke further detailed examination of how AST is disadvantaged compared to the two other healer Jobs, thus increasing negative feedback for SE to review, with the ultimate goal of encouraging others to advance the cause of AST improvement.

That's the most generous interpretation I can think of, anyway.

It's a shame we can't report for over the top inane and foolish comments.

[Luvbunny]

This is the questions that most raid group has to answer:

1. Can we bring AST to replace our normal WHM + SCH? AST can replace WHM right? --- Uhm no, it heals worst than WHM, has worse MP recovery, slightly worse DPS, and will force the SCH to be able to DPS less....
2. Can we bring AST to replace our SCH? -- Uhm no, it cannot DPS better than SCH, the buffs are worse than what the fairy can do because it is random, it does not have MP recovery as good as SCH, and the shield are far worse than SCH....
3. Ok, can we bring AST to provide buffs as good as bard or machinist? --- Uhm HELL NO!, the job can't even heal proper compared to the other two jobs, let alone giving the party meaningful buffs. You want buffs, you bring Bard or Machinist.

[VanEinstein]

This is the questions that most raid group has to answer:

1. Can we bring AST to replace our normal WHM + SCH? AST can replace WHM right? --- Uhm no, it heals worst than WHM, has worse MP recovery, slightly worse DPS, and will force the SCH to be able to DPS less....
2. Can we bring AST to replace our SCH? -- Uhm no, it cannot DPS better than SCH, the buffs are worse than what the fairy can do because it is random, it does not have MP recovery as good as SCH, and the shield are far worse than SCH....
3. Ok, can we bring AST to provide buffs as good as bard or machinist? --- Uhm HELL NO!, the job can't even heal proper compared to the other two jobs, let alone giving the party meaningful buffs. You want buffs, you bring Bard or Machinist.

All of this has been said before in a variety of posts that are far more detailed than anything we've said on these forums (though I've tried). Vlady just ignores facts to suit his version of reality in which Astrologian should receive no alterations because "it's fine". I was able to thoroughly point out that AST is not in fact competitive after he insisted it is. Somehow in his mind AST is an ideal choice to bring into progression from the get go, and that all the skill in the world makes it shoulder to shoulder with it's fellow healers.

Once more I'll point the way to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_from_party/

It's simply a fact that WHM/SCH will outperform an AST/SCH or AST/WHM combination (assuming same-skill level players - the players themselves muddy the equation). I don't claim to know if perfect card RNG would result in a net gain above the presence of SCH dps in the WHM/SCH pairing, but RNG is unreliable, and a wise raid composition would rather take reliable and proven methods over a combination that only has a slim chance of netting them an equal benefit.