[ Current Analysis of Astrologian and ideas for improvement and evaluation of its status ]
[ Introduction ]
Back again for another breakdown of Astro but instead of breaking down deficiencies only I'm here to conduct some healthy talks about what can be done to also improve Astro along with a evaluation of its current status (although in reverse order...). To start out with this is NOT a bash on AST thread nor PLZBUFFSE/YOSHIIII, buffing shall solve nothing (and I honestly believe that only some minor tweaks on a few things would make things better) and the Devs are looking into the forum for insight on the players thoughts of the job/skills (and thus why I'm typing another thread once again). Before you all grab your pitchforks and start white knighting me that AST is fine as is (if you true believe it to be) please just read the TL;DR's for each section (as I'm sure most of you shall since this shall be very, -very- lengthy) and take into consideration everything I have put in and give a rebuttal of why I am wrong with reasoning. Simply shaking your head saying things are fine without reasoning doesn't give a person insight as to why the opposing argument is wrong/right, it just leads to idle chatter that doesn't improve anyone's insight on anything. With that I shall now break everything down into three sections:
[Sections]
I > Astro Concept [Why Astro has a split community]
II > Astro Status [Evaluation of current status]
III > List of Proposed Changes for Moves/Abilities [Ideas for improvement]
IV > Some Things to Consider/Conclusion
>[I] Astro Concept<
Before we start talking about anything, we need to go to square one, we need to review the basics. You might think that is really stupid and trivial, but there is a reason why, it's also that very reason why we get a line drawn across the community of how they about Astro and is something everyone overlooks, never reflects on, and they assume their assumption is what everyone else s is as well and why we have conflict of the topic across the board. Now, the easiest way I can explain this is going back to 2.0, because this very thing has already happened, that thing is called Warrior. For those of you who haven't been around long enough Warrior went through a MAJOR overhaul on how it was suppose to play out from the original concept. To cut this as short as I can I will just list off the concept, how the concept played out, reality and utility, and why things needed to change.
>>Warrior<<
-Concept-
The original concept of Warrior was to be a HP stealing tank, and for those of you who don't understand I shall list off what the original skills were and it'll make itself more apparent (as well as some skills that were in their original abilities):
- Storms Path: 100% of damage dealt is returned as HP back to player
- Vengeance: 50 potency counterattack to any physical attack
- Inner Beast: 300 Potency move that returns 300% of damage done as HP back to the player
- Defiance: Reduces damage dealt by 25% and increases HP by 25%
- Wrath: Increases HP restored via curing magic by 5% and critical hit chance by 2% per stack
- Thrill of Battle: Increase maximum HP by 10%
Looking at all of this it's easy to see that Warrior didn't have any defensive cool downs (save one for physical) and was more about planning when to steal health. It also have a very unique system to it with the stacks as well, the HP% heal increase from stacks actually made it worthwhile to hold onto them and not blow them (depending on the situation). This added a very unique systems of planning when to take the increased healing from your healer and planning when it would be better to just steal health/increase DPS/get AoE agro (Inner beast/Unchained/Steel Cyclone)
-How it played out-
Believe it or not, the 2.0 Warrior was a well played out job, back in the days of the struggle named Demon Wall a skilled Warrior could kill it by itself. The job was fun to play and required a different mindset of Paladin and, of course, had some minor things it needed to have changed (Holmgang only binding you and a enemy, no additional effects) as well but the job, with how they created it and how they wanted it to be played, was 99% fine.
-Reality and Utility-
Now that you farmed enough philosophy and got your darklight (and maybe some myth too for some AF gear), you're now ready for Binding Coils, or maybe you're ready to get Bravura (relic weapon)...... but you find that most groups aren't accepting Warriors. Warriors original concept/play style gave them no defense/CD/mitigation on the big hits that were coming and you basically only had pseudo-buffs to help those hits. Thrill of Battle (mind you 10% at the time) only helped you be able to soak more damage, there was also the joke worthy Foresight (Increase player physical defense by 20%, not reduce damage taken by 20%) that decreased most physical damage by 5-9% (if that). Looking at those two together healers never had any relief in a fight on healing Warriors, the self healing moves helped but for the end-game content bosses had their tank busters (Titan HM's Mountain Buster) and on fights that had hard sustained damage (T1 Caduceus, T4 Wave of adds) the Warriors HP was essentially a ping pong ball bouncing from low to near full (and even then crit likes to say hi from time to time). There was also no incentive of bringing Warrior as they had only one utility move for the raid, Storms Eye, of which was laughable because only they and the Paladins had a benefit from that and even that was a joke (Tank DPS).
-Why things needed to change-
Yoshi-P consistently told players that they were playing the job wrong and that Warriors were fine they way they were, but he wasn't technically wrong in saying this. Warriors were an excellent HP stealing tank and had a very unique play style from its only counterpart and psudeoly could take big damage, however, the players weren't wrong for their complaints either (a viable tank for any content, not just some). Warrior brought no utility to the raid outside of one joke move that only they and Paladins had a benefit from which, of which was a joke, they had no flat out mitigation skills and that made them a turn off for fights that had hard hitting/tank buster moves and is the reason why back at launch most coils groups was running PLD/PLD. In the end they remedied this by giving it a unique CD/move rotation for mitigating hits (Inner beast (20% Damage reduction)), gave them another true mitigation move (Vengeance (30% Damage reduction) plus bettering a move to help cushion hits(Thrill of Battle 10% > 20%), made them easier to heal (took away the 5% healing increase per stack and gave it to Defiance with a flat out 20% (aka no longer had a build up of healing getting easier the further they got into their combos), gave them a raid utility move (Storms Path 10% Damage reduction), and sadly got rid of the the healing aspect playing a major part (Storm path now being 50% and Inner Beast being 100%).
TL;DR WARRIOR'S CONCEPT WAS DIFFERENT IN 2.0 AND WAS ACTUALLY A WELL PLAYED JOB WITH THE CONCEPT SE SAW IN THE JOB, HOWEVER DUE TO IT HAVING LITTLE-TO-NO UTILITY/MITIGATION AND PAYING A HUGE PRICE OF HAVING THE HP STEALING CONCEPT (THE LITTLE-TO-NO MITIGATION/UTILITY SKILLS), IT WAS QUICKLY SHUT FROM ENDGAME CONTENT AND HAD TO HAVE A MAJOR OVERHAUL ON HOW WARRIOR PLAYED. YOSHI-P WASN'T WRONG FOR TRYING TO KEEP THE CLASS A HP-STEALING TANK AND TELLING PLAYERS THEY PLAYED IT WRONG, BUT NEITHER WERE THE PLAYERS FOR WANTING A TANK THEY COULD TAKE INTO ANY CONTENT.
--Back to Topic--
Now that we got through that huge block you might ask how the hell does 2.0 Warrior relate to Astrologian and why did I go so in-depth. The reason is Astrologian is in the same exact position, I'll explain it in the same way I did with Warrior.
>>Astrologian<<
-Concept-
(Warning in Advance: This will be brief as the second section shall better cover this)
Astrologians main concept (at least from what I can recall at all the PLL/LL) was to have a versatile healer able to adapt to your co-healer jobs and filling the missing role (Regen/Barrier) and to help bring party utility in the form of the cards.
Simply going from this (on paper talking) they got the job right, if you enter DF and have a WHM healer you can go into Nocturnal Sect and play in as the barrier healer as the WHM cannot do barrier healing and vice verse, go into Diurnal and do the Regen/partial raid healing while your SCH does the barrier healing.
-How it played out-
Honestly speaking (and not going in-depth in certain categories), the job they intended played out very well. Having played AST and doing all content since early access (including EX primals), I can say that I never had a feeling that AST needed to be buffed nor that I was a burden to my teammates (however that doesn't mean I don't think some minor tweaks are in order (ex: lightspeed patch/buff)). Astrologian can fit the roll of a regen or barrier healer with a slight (yet understandable) weaker difference on both but also has some nice utility with the cards, sometimes useful and sometimes not (the nature of RNG).
-Reality and Utility-
For the time given I shall exclude this and add it to status (Section [II]) as most of this post interrelates too much with how it's currently doing and having a subsection towards it does little justice.
-Why things need to change-
Same reason as above.
TL;DR FROM THE DEVELOPERS PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT THEY WANTED ASTROLOGIAN TO BE, IT IS EXACTLY WHERE THEY WANT IT, HOWEVER THIS DOESN'T EXACTLY MEAN IT'S FINE AS IS, READ NEXT TL;DR
> [II] Astro Status <
No matter how you feel about the job, you'll only need to look around you to see that the major part of the community feels more negative than positive about the job, and this is to include those who aren't AST. On some more recent posts there have been topics of AST being excluded from PF and people generally avoiding trying play with one, seems a bit similar to another job at one point too... However, I will state this, AST has a better holding than Warriors did in 2.0, both stances fulfill the required part they are suppose to uphold and all content is viable, to include Savage (stay with me on this because this is partially true, albeit something major), but because of this people will say that it's fine where it's at and at the same time say it isn't. Astrologian is inherently weaker in either forms and is the price of being able to buff party members, something no other class is able to do, but because of that weakness Astrologian is not viable for certain content until gear can put it on par where the jobs can stand at an earlier ilevel. This is one of the major reasons why part of the community is displeased with the job, you are required to have gear to be on par where another job can hold ground at an earlier time/with less gear. Some people will say this isn't true at all, which brings me to another point that these naysayers say but does bring a partially good point that people who think AST needs a buff are forgetting/missing. When you bring a Astrologian into the party you can't have the mindset of WHM/SCH with AST trying to replace one or the other, you and your co-healer slightly need to adjust to a different play style as well (Some say that it's a night and day difference when you bring AST for play style on how you go about with your co-healer on content but I don't think it's that extreme). This does bring up also another point, Nocturnal Stance. As I have just stated you (partially) cannot have the mindset of WHM/SCH and try to mimic the play style you're missing, because you'll find that you're going OoM faster, as many say they have a problem with in Nocturnal stance, you NEED a different mindset than SCH when in Nocturnal, the abilities you mimic are that akin to SCH but playing like one will be more detrimental than beneficial. (Sorry but personal opinion time) This might seem a little orthodox to say and might not make sense, but the best way I can put it is the only real time Noct shielding should be used is when it allows you some lead way to catch up on healing/get some breathing room/time to DPS/allow you to interact with something else. Mind you, you also have a near potent Medica and Cura (that SCH doesn't have (well kind of now...)) so throwing out barriers just like you would/can do with SCH will hurt you when potency per MP is better spend on the Cura or Medica, and mind you it's 5% more potent because of Nocts additional effect. (sorry, personal opinion over, but I say this because people flat out throw Noct out of their mind, it's not useless but you need to think/play different when using it). NOW, with all that being said I think this needs to be said before pressing forward to the next topic but also needs to be said here say because it relates to both but is the biggest "ping pong" topic because of how grey the topic is. People are asking for buffs on the job, to make the cards more potent, make noct "useful" (aka buff). People can ask for this all day but let me ask you this, does it seem real fair if you bring a AST in and you're clearing content 1-2 minutes faster, how about 2-3 minutes? While yes, the AST does buff the party, and yes it -can- possibly make raids/fights go faster, there needs to be a line drawn from it having head way over the other classes, or if so at a very hefty price. Some other people have posted a very good point that leads back to this, AST has an identity crisis. In Diurnal we'll never be as good as WHM and in Noct we'll never be as good as SCH, both of which are alright, but when you make the identity/key thing/iconic thing about the job something that doesn't bring impactful differences you're left with a "eh?" healer that can sorta do barrier and regen and the cards can "maybe" help from time to time all of which is the cost of being a sup-par WHM/SCH of which the grey topic comes up. Exactly what part do you change to make AST unique but and at what cost? Do you make the cards more potent so they really do have impacts on fights, but how does this effect SCH/WHM, where does it place them? Do you increase healing/abilities to be on par with them? To this I believe AST needs to have more interrelation of its skills relate back to the cards (more in section [III]). Balance, it's something that is weighed heavy on each job, and sometimes it isn't right (AST right now) but Devs need input and data from others to get it where it needs to be. Balanced changed above all needs to be made, no matter what you believe no job should ever be more viable than another, for good reasons or bad, and yet at the same time should being something unique to the raid and be a reason why they -do- want you.
TL;DR JUST AS WITH THE WARRIOR HAVING A HEFTY PRICE FOR HAVING NICE SELF-HEALING, ASTROLOGIAN PAYS A HEFTY PRICE FOR BEING ABLE TO BUFF PARTY MEMBERS, BUT THE PRICE WE PAY ISN'T WARRANTED WITH WHAT WE LOSE, BALANCED CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE, BUFFING ISN'T THE ANSWER. ASTROLOGIAN ALSO HAS AN IDENTITY CRISIS, WE'RE A GIMP WHM AND SCH AND THE BUFFS AREN'T THAT POTENT TO MAKE VISIBLE CHANGES WHEN USED AND PUTS AST IN A "EH?" POSITION BUT AT THE SAME TIME CAN'T BE MADE TOO POTENT TO GIVE US A DEFINING EDGE OVER THE OTHER JOBS, IT'S A HUGE SHADE OF GREY TOPIC.
> [III] Proposed Changes/Ideas <
With all of what I previously said being said, it's very apparent that AST is in a very huge gradient of grey to where it -should- be. Now the fun part! In your opinion what changes should be made so that so that it doesn't tip the scale too far one way or the other? It's a very hard topic to discuss to which people can all agree on because it's in the middle of very polar opposite topics of AST being fine where it currently is and it needing buffs. Like I previously said I believe small, balanced, changes should be made, and would put it in a better position. Personally, I believe that AST should interrelate more with it's cards beyond its current abilities that it has and make it a more keenly unique thing you're constantly working with through a fight and not something react to every 30 seconds, and thus fix the identity crisis it holds. Without further adieu here some the changes I think would help put AST on better grounds without "buffing" (albeit one) it but making it more unique:
Celestial Opposition Ver. A:You attune your mind towards the stars revealing multiple paths that reveal themselves to you. Effect: Enables you to change from Diurnal stance to Nocturnal or from Nocturnal to Diurnal Duration: 10 seconds CD Timer: 2-3 Minutes (still holds all of the old effects)
Celestial Opposition Ver. B:Attuning to the stars Aether fills your body allowing you to exceed your limits. Effect: On the next use of draw an additional Royal Road buff shall also be used in conjunction with any given one you may have CD Timer: 1 Minute (Loses old effects)
Celestial Opposition Ver. C:- Diurnal Sect: Cover your nearby area with celestial aether rewinding wounds inflicted. Effect: 250 Potency Heal Additional Effect: Exalted Detriment on all party members
- Nocturnal Sect: Attuning to the stars you see a better way to proceed. Effect: 50% cost on all abilities (MP/TP) Duration: 10 seconds
CD: 2-3 Minutes
>On this one I would say I favor this the less than the others but I do like that it relates back to sects
Collective Unconscious Ver. A:- Either Stance: When allies enter the wheel of fortune time cease on all cards, effect ends upon exiting or end of Collective Unconscious.
- Diurnal Sect: Time is rewinding on all cards, timer on all cards is increased the longer the player stays in the wheel of fortune.
- Nocturnal Sect: Party members also gain an additional 1.5x effect on any cards they may hold.
Collective Unconscious Ver. B:
Either Stance: When allies enter the wheel of fortune time cease on all cards, effect ends upon exiting or end of Collective Unconscious AND All curing done via curing magic is increased by 30-50% (Warranting you not healing and your co-healer picking up your slack)
(JP Post Ideas)
Synastry: An aetheric bond is created with a party member. Each time a healing spell is cast on another target, that member will also recover partial HP
Ver. A: Effect: The party member with which you have the synastry bond will also recover HP equaling 100% of the original spell
Ver. B: Effect: The next two effects you throw out on another party member shall also apply to who you're bonded with (EX: Nocturnal Shield, Any Card buff, Time Dialation) Recast: 1 - 1 1/2 Minute(s)
>I can go either or on this one, I do like the fact that you're basically doing double healing at 1/2 the cost and allowing your co-healer to rest for a bit/help with DPS, but I also like that you can a get more utility via Synastry
Sects
Ver. A
Diurnal Sect: All cards inherently have double duration
Nocturnal Sect: All cards inherently have 150% potency
Ver. B
Diurnal Sect: Expanded royal roads no longer reduce effect by 50%
Nocturnal Sect: Allows for the stacking of two royal road buffs
>A pseudo card buff if you will, but I do believe that the job itself in all of its aspects should relate back its key mechanic, on ver B diurnal I will say I couldn't come up with a good effect for the cards and ended up going with something lesser that what I would have wanted.
Bole: Reduces target's damage taken by 20%
> This is the only card/ability I believe Astrologian needs a buff in numbers on, why? I personally believe that this should be something like a Crit Adlo, if you do get it and use it you -should- be able to draw you attention away from the tank for a bit (as with SCH I immediately popped Cleric Stance and put my 5 dots up and switched back). On the few occasions I have thrown this out and it actually coming of "some" use it at best saved me a 1-2x benefics, something that doesn't really seem that worthwhile to me and could have been better spent 1.5x buffing the next card. 20% seems fair and for further reasoning you can buff it to 30%, which you can't argue that healing isn't less intensive at that point (Shadowskin, prebuffed-sentinel)
Ewer: Refreshes both TP/MP
Spire: Increase critical chance by 20%
>I will say this above all is the least I would recommend, this is simply to expand ast ability.
> [IV] Some Things to Consider/Conclusion <
Well, 8 hours later of typing this, I am finally making it to this point....... the best thing I can say in this section is "balanced changes" (not buffs). AST is in the middle of grey grounds and an argument can go anyway for if it should/shouldn't have some changes be made and even grayer on what should change if you believe something should. The Devs can't make the cards be game changing every time their drawn or else it removes some viability of having a SCH/WHM and then they have to fight who gets the second spot in a raid. You bring every single class for its merits (and demerits) but at the end one shouldn't be gleaming over the others (nor looming). I personally believe that AST needs to relate more with its cards with all the actions it currently has and make it more interactive than it currently is, but hell, that is my perspective, and you can argue that it's wrong and be right, but still be wrong as well (even if you may be right you could still be wrong, but even if you're not wrong you might not be right, and thus is the woe of being a shade of gray topic). The best we can do is voice those opinions, and to do so methodically and have reasoning to what we say, otherwise healthy talks won't spread and better ideas that the devs -could- get gets hidden behind 10 pages of negative posts. Thank you for your time (and if you read my last post thank you again for bearing through my long ass post.... again) and I hope that you take some of this information get a better perspective of the multiple perspectives of the job and see that it will take time to get things where they -should- be
TL;DR: EVERYTHING IS GRAY, WHETHER YOU WANT THE CHANGES OR NOT, AND IF YOU DO WHAT SHOULD CHANGE. (IN GENERAL) ONE CLASS SHOULD NEVER BE SHINING ABOVE THE OTHERS NOR BE SOMETHING OTHERS DREAD, IT'S HARD TO FIND THE MIDDLE GROUNDS AND THAT TAKES TIME, BUT IT ALSO REQUIRES FEEDBACK THAT THE DEVS NEED FROM US AND DATA THEY GET FROM US DOING CONTENT
Well typed/thought out perspective of an AST play who tackled Savage and his thoughts:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...strologian-IMO
Breakdown of why AST shouldn't be neglected but is in PF:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ed_from_party/
My old post on the demerits and reason why AST is "behind" when compared to the other healers:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ent_state_and/
Originally Posted by
Grekumah
Greetings,
Thanks for the feedback!
We'd like to share the dev. team's thoughts and approach in regards to the current balance of astrologians.
- Astrologian's healing potency and cards effects
Astrologian's healing potency and card effects were set with a party's total offensive and defensive capabilities in mind, as they can increase various effects of other party members using their cards.
The development team is observing player progression in raids and dungeons to ensure the game balance is set up appropriately for each piece of content. If they feel it needs further adjustments, they'll consider making adjustments based on player data and feedback.
- Future feedback
The development team is constantly observing in-game data, but they're also using the feedback received on the forums when making future adjustments. Comments regarding how astrologians feel when healing throughout the various areas of content is very useful, so please continue to send us specific requests on each action's effect when battling through the different instances.
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