Who here is also burned out from farming?

[Xairos]

Subjectivity is the opposite of objective, which refers to things that are more clear-cut. That Earth has one moon is objective — it's a fact. Whether the moon is pretty or not is subjective — not everyone will agree. Facts are objective, but opinions are subjective

Whether or not a grind is acceptable is subjective. Do I want to try to Dodge Lightning 200 times for a weapon so I can do more damage to optional endgame bosses? Depends on you. Do I want to run a dungeon 20 times for tomes for gear that makes it easier for me to run dungeons to get more gear...? Depends on you. I agree with you on the fact that it's SE job to lie to us in a pleasant way and make the Grind Acceptable.

I can't even.... and for some of those I was talking about Gaming and grinding as a whole not just grinding as mmos are concerned. If you want to get Ranks in some of those games, its a Grind. or a Farm, or w/e. Look at the design choices from a developers standpoint not just as a gamer. You kept playing for gear with RNG stats because you think you can get better rolls. That's why its designed like that. Don't let the frustration of FFXIV cloud your thinking. SE chose to go with what was in FFXI and take RNG off gear, that makes it a bit boring, but it gets us to our goal a lot faster. You are right about 1.0, maybe, but they didn't try to make a better game, it was rushed, and it failed, financially. Regardless, SE still needed (and wanted) to rebuild. It doesn't change the fact that we are currently in their rebuilding attempt.

And as far as presentation, First impressions in gaming are huge. Very huge. So much so, that even with this current "Easy as pie" model we have in FFXIV people still are confused about what stats to emphasize and what secondary stats they should go for on their gear for their class.

The gear you re talking about is leveling gear. There were no random stats on relevant gear (eg dungeons drops after a certain level and raids) from vanilla wow to WoD. In WoD stats RNG came in for some gear but only does apply to secondary stats.

Yeah, you might be right. I never saw end game gear. I got to level 86, i think. My ultimate point (in an attempt to not split hairs on what part of the game has the randomized stats on gear) is that Randomized Stats on Gear seems fun on the surface. Heck, while leveling, it IS fun. Each piece is unique and special and different. Objectively, it keeps you thinking: "IS this the best rolls I could have gotten?" and "Maybe I can get better if I do a few more runs" or you might not care at all and just go with what you got, which in turn, begs the question, why even have it all?

Is the goal the gear or the feeling?

Here is where Subjectivity can no longer be questioned. If your goal is to feel, then weird stats and worthless pieces are brilliant. If your goal is to upgrade and be at the best you can be, then to get rid of the worthless drops is better. Its a fork in the road for your gaming style. It seems like for many in this thread the fault with FFXIV (and current MMO trends) is that the game design gets us to our goal too cleanly and to clearly. It doesn't lie to us, it doesn't cloud the path, it just lays it out there and lets us choose if it's worth our time doing.

Anecdote: I used to play Magic: The Gathering. I started out just like many other players: I got a starter deck with all it's (objectively) horrible cards. But I didn't really know any better. So I had tons of fun learning the rules and seeing the awesome artwork on each of the cards. From there I, rightfully so, started to move into buying Booster Packs. Here is where things started split in my mind. Subjectively, Booster Packs are amazing! They are like the sweetest drug known to man. Objectively, they are the spawn of evil and the absolute worst way to get into deck-building and playing the game. The ratio of getting cards that are good and cards that you will need are abysmal and I was better off buying singles and trading for what I wanted as opposed to booster packs.

But.. it wasn't as much fun. So I had to make a choice. Go the fun route and lie to myself as far as efficiency was concerned, or go the effective route and get to making decks and putting my brain to work at the strategy of the game. IT was tough, but now I buy a pack maybe once or twice a year.

They can't change up the flow of this game overnight. Nor will they. They have declared (so far) that they dont want to cloud or hide the grind in this game (except for Red Scrips) as far as gear and Ilevels are concerned. Now we all have decisions to make. Will we favor the lie and the obfuscations of the past for the sake of making us feel like we are accomplishing something, or will we actually (as far as the limitations of the game we play) accomplish something even though the path is easy and laid out for us?