Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[NozomiKei]

No because sell groups typically aren't selling carries through progression content (at least from what I've seen).
No because all fights are different.
No because some people don't care about doing endgame but still want their clears (i.e. they won't come back to the content right off).
No because sometimes you can be capable but unable to find a good group.

Those are just a few reasons. That being said, I bought Titan EX and T5 wins ages ago and have regretted it ever since. Yes it was hard finding groups and I don't think there is anything morally wrong with buying carries. However, it didn't really help me meet my goals because I don't want to get a clear and forget about the fight; I want to really know what I'm doing and I want to have the social connections to go back and farm or help others if I want to. I don't find lying in the dirt while others beat the fight for me much fun. Although in both paid groups, I perfectly executed mechanics and never died.

Anyway, I've since learned those fights really well and helped multiple people clear them. The gil I spent on a group was just a waste. It hurt me but I think the rest of the community is fine

This exactly minus having bought anything previously(though I have been pseudo carried[terrible dps but perfect mechanics] and hated it). And as for sellers helping others for free; every seller I know has done carry runs and roulettes with half a party in order to help others. They have individually mentioned multiple times how much they enjoy helping people get their clear. And like someone mentioned before, some buyers are doing it for the guaranteed loot. People that buy middle coil usually go on to buy final coil as well and nobody's party is messed up because of them at that point.

Tl;dr I think selling is fine and doesn't hurt endgame.

[Welsper59]

End game is a fickle mistress when it comes to how it affects the community/server. A lot of people like to act as though there is some underlying moral inherent to anyone and anything in existence (specifically anyone/thing related to this game). The fact is, there is none. Believing that some carry group that currently sells runs would go out of their way to frequently get people their clears for free, to the same extent they would if paid, is a naive perspective. Mind you, that also does imply that there are people who would (or do) help random people get their clears... you just won't see it as often. They're essentially a business that offers consumers looking for their service an opportunity to get something they want. It'd be like if you had a hobby working on cars, but came across a problem that you can't fix because you lack the resources (i.e. time, competent party members, etc when it comes to FFXIV), so you decide to pay for help from those who do. Mind you, this works in all forms of business, both legit and shady.

Think of it like real life poverty and the homeless. Nearly everyone knows it's a problem and that if someone would just donate a dollar to this individual a day, or helped them out with some clothes or a nice meal, it could potentially change their life. Yet hardly anyone does this, despite the fact that you know it's enough to make someones day. Charitable thinking is just that... a thought. And that's the farthest it goes to for most everyone. Somehow though, we're okay with this idea. It's acceptable for one reason or another.

If you believe that it is wrong for players to sell clears, and to not be charitable by not offering this for free to every single person, ask yourself why is that wrong? Why is it okay to force unto others your personal belief that they should feel bad for selling a service that has little to no impact on anyone but the parties involved? Why is it okay to expect people to take time out of their lives, to prevent them from doing something they would otherwise want to do, simply because you expect charity, instead of a service or act that they can provide that others can't?

[Dhex]

Why would you pay for a game, to pay an RMT, to pay other players to play the game for you?

[AdamFyi]

DF is a wipefest and PF is full selling or warnings about kicking.

I'm confused. First, everyone asks the fights to be DF-able because they don't have the time to set up PF practice parties which is perfectly understandable. Now we have people complaining that DF is terrible for practice because it's hard to get a clear in it. A lot us already know how bad some PUGs are, and it's pretty much a given that most DF groups are pretty bad when it comes to skill-based encounters. Personally, I don't have high expectations on DF. ಠ_ಠ

As for PF, don't join the obvious groups that don't have the same mindset as you. If you know the fight and know you have decent experience with it, you can negotiate with the leader to make an exception. It's not that hard. Communication, people! Use it!

[cgbspender]

The argument "if you can afford a run, you bought your Gils from gilseller" is so off. I m not a run buyer, nor a run seller, i m not a gil buyer either, and i can t even craft at high level. Still i make an average of 10/15m per week. Thinking that the Gils necessarily come from RMT is totally wrong and misleading.

[dejavutwo]

I don't particularly like the idea of selling clears, but I would do so myself should the opportunity arise.

Raiding is what I do. I like it, and that is how I spend almost all of my in-game time. Whether with my static or joining random learning groups I am almost always doing some form of 8-man. The problem is, that leaves me perpetually broke. The more time I spend in dungeons, the less I spend making gil, and I actually end up losing gil through repairs. That means I need a way to make some money for myself to pay for consumables and repairs.

I wouldn't really even think about selling clears if crafted item prices weren't so over-inflated. I would just help for free if I could actually sustain myself by helping others, but that is not the case.

[ShaneDawn]

The bottlenecks are there for a reason, and there should be more of them. Anyone who bought their runs/got carried to do content behind the bottlenecks or join (read; get carried) in the farm parties just warp the whole end-game quality for the worse. A lot of the "farm parties" on PF generally suck. I'm not sure how big of a factor run selling is in it, but it exists. Mostly it's just ppl that barely scraped through the fight thinking they can farm though.

I always find it funny when the teams *sell runs anonymously*. There are people who buy their runs to brag about them and ruin farm parties for other people? It really disgusts me.

[CUTS3R]

The argument "if you can afford a run, you bought your Gils from gilseller" is so off. I m not a run buyer, nor a run seller, i m not a gil buyer either, and i can t even craft at high level. Still i make an average of 10/15m per week. Thinking that the Gils necessarily come from RMT is totally wrong and misleading.

Id really like to know how you pull that off.

[ShaneDawn]

If people were more considerate about actually learning the fights and improving themselves rather than going full-on idiots and buying their runs, we would have a much healthier and enjoyable end-game community anyways. Sometimes I'm really jelly for the state of Japanese end-game.

[Bluevann]

The argument "if you can afford a run, you bought your Gils from gilseller" is so off. I m not a run buyer, nor a run seller, i m not a gil buyer either, and i can t even craft at high level. Still i make an average of 10/15m per week. Thinking that the Gils necessarily come from RMT is totally wrong and misleading.

You are only reading half of the argument. My point was that no matter what you do to make money in this game, it will still take SO MUCH effort, that any person in their sane state of mind will realize one clear or one attempt at one piece of loot will NEVER be worth all the work it took you to make that amount of gil. Only those that did not make any effort to get those gil (aka, gilbuyers), will consider it a fair exchange.

I make 500K a day if I want money bad, and you know how long does it take me? Four to six hours. To gather all the materials, craft all the gear, spiritbond it all, convert it all in materia and then finally put it to sell. And that's pretty much how long I can stay online on a "relaxed" weekday, so in short, the whole "game day", which means I have to spend one whole gaming session doing something that I do not enjoy to make that gil. It's a chore, a job. There isn't a single Duty in the game that I'd ever consider worth giving away even just one of those days' income. Nevermind millions, result of a week of work.