Take away the MP cost on our attacks

[Physic]

To answer the question, my copy/paste info came from an "ask the devs" I believe it was. I have not actually paid attention to know if it had changed.

Anyone care to test the HP/MP gain per each point added to Vit/Mnd for each class ?

As far as the MP usage goes. I do agree that it follows a more logical for magic abilities to use only MP and physical attacks to use TP.

i showed you the different mp for different jobs of varying levels. pugilist is fairly low on the list.

[Vackashken]

Umm. . . you complain about the MP cost on your abilities taking away your ability to cure yourself. I point out that if you leave the healing to the healers, you should have 0 MP problems. You ignore me because. . . ?

Does the MP cost need to go? Yes. Should you be running into MP problems? No.

"uuum" The point is it needs to go and also I don't believe you for a split second that you've ever tanked anything substantial before if you're going to puke up that tripe. Yes, healers do 95% of the healing but when a monster hits you for 1000+k damage you or other myriad of real-world circumstances that might pop up in the chaos of a fight even one heal cripples your MP. Again, not my point though but you saying that crapola is based on theory not real game practical experience. The point is even without healing yourself the MP goes down far too quick just from using the attacks that are part of your mundane arsenal and also give you a "buff" of some sort. The focus of the discussion wasn't about healing yourself.

Again, I ignore you because its absolutely evident you've never tanked (any "tough" NM) before if that is your actual stance because its so clearly based on theoretics. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about. If you honestly say you never have had to heal under any circumstance drastic or otherwise your clearly a none tanking pug.



Anyway - again I say - having mp cost on our normal attacks is absurd. In particular if one of the attacks is suppose to be a buff to our evasion being the bastard evasion type tanking class.

[Eruantien]

To answer the question, my copy/paste info came from an "ask the devs" I believe it was. I have not actually paid attention to know if it had changed.

Anyone care to test the HP/MP gain per each point added to Vit/Mnd for each class ?

As far as the MP usage goes. I do agree that it follows a more logical for magic abilities to use only MP and physical attacks to use TP.

I dont remember that dev post, please point me at it. Because it has never ever been fixed amount gained the same for each class as that statement says

[Viridiana]

"uuum" The point is it needs to go and also I don't believe you for a split second that you've ever tanked anything substantial before if you're going to puke up that tripe. Yes, healers do 95% of the healing but when a monster hits you for 1000+k damage you or other myriad of real-world circumstances that might pop up in the chaos of a fight even one heal cripples your MP. Again, not my point though but you saying that crapola is based on theory not real game practical experience. The point is even without healing yourself the MP goes down far too quick just from using the attacks that are part of your mundane arsenal and also give you a "buff" of some sort. The focus of the discussion wasn't about healing yourself.

Again, I ignore you because its absolutely evident you've never tanked (any "tough" NM) before if that is your actual stance because its so clearly based on theoretics. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about. If you honestly say you never have had to heal under any circumstance drastic or otherwise your clearly a none tanking pug.



Anyway - again I say - having mp cost on our normal attacks is absurd. In particular if one of the attacks is suppose to be a buff to our evasion being the bastard evasion type tanking class.

I'm sorry, which ones are the "tough" NMs? I ask because I've tanked all of the high-rank NMs without healing myself beyond using Second Wind, and I did so successfully.

That notwithstanding, though, you almost had a point. I say "almost" because you're still claiming that MP goes down too fast when you're not casting spells. While I absolutely agree that the MP cost needs to go, the only time I've ever run into MP problems was when I was trying to do the casters' jobs. . .

[Physic]

I'm sorry, which ones are the "tough" NMs? I ask because I've tanked all of the high-rank NMs without healing myself beyond using Second Wind, and I did so successfully.

That notwithstanding, though, you almost had a point. I say "almost" because you're still claiming that MP goes down too fast when you're not casting spells. While I absolutely agree that the MP cost needs to go, the only time I've ever run into MP problems was when I was trying to do the casters' jobs. . .

at 420 mp, and 40 mp a minute, max pug can tank unaided is 10 minutes, this number goes down the less mp pug has, so midlevel, your talking about probably half that time or less. Why is there even a timer on pugs ability to do its basic jobs.

the fact that you can make due is besides the point, there is no reason logically, that pugilist should have to make due. Pugilist isnt a magic related class, it has the either the smallest or second smallest mana pools out of all classes. Why is their main mechanic limited by mp, when no one elses is. Why did they decide the pugilist alone needs mp to regulate the use of his basic attacks, and basic functions when no one else does. the skills are not superior, and they are on the same type of times as other classes. pugilist has no means of returning its mp naturally, they are not an mp class, it is illogical regardless of whether you can get around it.

And also, when they start adding rules, and making certain skills class specific, will you still get stygian spikes? we dont even know. Its a foolish decsion.

every other class can do its basic attacks for free, because you know, its their basic attacks. its supposed to build tp, and provide the general playing style for the class. Nothing about pugilist basic style involves returing or even having mp, why does the skill use mp.

[Viridiana]

at 420 mp, and 40 mp a minute, max pug can tank unaided is 10 minutes, this number goes down the less mp pug has, so midlevel, your talking about probably half that time or less. Why is there even a timer on pugs ability to do its basic jobs.

the fact that you can make due is besides the point, there is no reason logically, that pugilist should have to make due. Pugilist isnt a magic related class, it has the either the smallest or second smallest mana pools out of all classes. Why is their main mechanic limited by mp, when no one elses is. Why did they decide the pugilist alone needs mp to regulate the use of his basic attacks, and basic functions when no one else does. the skills are not superior, and they are on the same type of times as other classes. pugilist has no means of returning its mp naturally, they are not an mp class, it is illogical regardless of whether you can get around it.

And also, when they start adding rules, and making certain skills class specific, will you still get stygian spikes? we dont even know. Its a foolish decsion.

every other class can do its basic attacks for free, because you know, its their basic attacks. its supposed to build tp, and provide the general playing style for the class. Nothing about pugilist basic style involves returing or even having mp, why does the skill use mp.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing there. I think I've said in every post I've made on the topic that the MP cost needs to go, if for no other reason than because it makes absolutely no sense. However, I'm also not fond of his assertions that PGL (or any tank, really) absolutely has to be casting Cure on itself in order to be doing its job right. Cure and Sacrifice belong to the healers and to soloers, not to tanks, and I'd like to keep it that way.

ETA: Oh, and I also strongly disagree that the MP cost makes it so you can't keep up your basic abilities throughout a fight. Fights shouldn't be lasting that long, with the possible exception of Batraal (haven't timed it).

[Vackashken]

I'm sorry, which ones are the "tough" NMs? I ask because I've tanked all of the high-rank NMs without healing myself beyond using Second Wind, and I did so successfully.

That notwithstanding, though, you almost had a point. I say "almost" because you're still claiming that MP goes down too fast when you're not casting spells. While I absolutely agree that the MP cost needs to go, the only time I've ever run into MP problems was when I was trying to do the casters' jobs. . .

I quoted tough because there are none really, just ones that take more time then others. And again my point remains, because you disagree with me is meaningless and has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Also, I don't believe you in even the slightest way that you've never tossed a heal on yourself if you've tanked or on others as an off tank for emergencies.

Flat out I'm calling you a liar and there is literally nothing you can troll on about to change that. Never given yourself a heal because its purely a casters job... troll on trolly.

[Viridiana]

I quoted tough because there are none really, just ones that take more time then others. And again my point remains, because you disagree with me is meaningless and has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Also, I don't believe you in even the slightest way that you've never tossed a heal on yourself if you've tanked or on others as an off tank for emergencies.

Flat out I'm calling you a liar and there is literally nothing you can troll on about to change that. Never given yourself a heal because its purely a casters job... troll on trolly.

Never said I haven't healed others. I'm not sure if you noticed, but non-tanking PGLs wind up with a bit of downtime in the rank 45 dungeon. Enough time to, say, regenerate MP spent healing the tank if the healers ask for help. If I'm tanking, though? Second Wind, and that's it.

Also, I like how disagreeing with you makes me a troll. Whatever else you might think of me, believe me when I say that my ventures into trolling involve a hell of a lot more sarcasm than this.

[Vackashken]

Never said I haven't healed others. I'm not sure if you noticed, but non-tanking PGLs wind up with a bit of downtime in the rank 45 dungeon. Enough time to, say, regenerate MP spent healing the tank if the healers ask for help. If I'm tanking, though? Second Wind, and that's it.

Also, I like how disagreeing with you makes me a troll. Whatever else you might think of me, believe me when I say that my ventures into trolling involve a hell of a lot more sarcasm than this.

Never said I haven't healed others. I'm not sure if you noticed, but non-tanking PGLs wind up with a bit of downtime in the rank 45 dungeon. Enough time to, say, regenerate MP spent healing the tank if the healers ask for help. If I'm tanking, though? Second Wind, and that's it.

Again, you either lying or completely incompetent to say I only heal with second wind and second wind alone when I am tanking. Having Cure and Sac2 is a must for anything and everything that could happen. As I said reality - not some theoretical troll babble about how healers should only heal EVER. And again, as I first insinuated if you happen to have to heal yourself (or others in your sudden turn-around) you drastically reduce your combat potential because of the bizzare MP cost.

In no way did I imply or say tanks should being healing themselves - I pointed out the disadvantage of emergency situations touching upon MP use taking away from our attacks.

Also, I like how disagreeing with you makes me a troll. Whatever else you might think of me, believe me when I say that my ventures into trolling involve a hell of a lot more sarcasm than this.

No, disagreeing with me doesn't make you a troll.Saying something compounded in idiocy and falsehood (I NEVER heal when I tank EVAAAAR) and going on about it when the point of the thread has nothing to do with it makes you a troll, trolly.

move along

[Viridiana]

Again, you either lying or completely incompetent to say I only heal with second wind and second wind alone when I am tanking. Having Cure and Sac2 is a must for anything and everything that could happen. As I said reality - not some theoretical troll babble about how healers should only heal EVER. And again, as I first insinuated if you happen to have to heal yourself (or others in your sudden turn-around) you drastically reduce your combat potential because of the bizzare MP cost.

In no way did I imply or say tanks should being healing themselves - I pointed out the disadvantage of emergency situations touching upon MP use taking away from our attacks.



No, disagreeing with me doesn't make you a troll.Saying something compounded in idiocy and falsehood (I NEVER heal when I tank EVAAAAR) and going on about it when the point of the thread has nothing to do with it makes you a troll, trolly.

move along

Your first two paragraphs contradict each other. First you say that Cure II and Sac II are must-haves for situations that arise, then you say that you've never implied or said that tanks should be healing themselves. Nevermind your post from earlier talking about being hit for 1k+ and having to heal, thereby reducing your offensive options. Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds an awful lot like you're saying tanks should heal themselves.What was that about saying things "compounded in idiocy and falsehood"?