NIN -- how does everyone else feel we're doing?

[sorge74]

Maybe you are a bad drg.

My DRG is awesome, he crushed me by 100-200 DPS, and I pull higher numbers then a vast majority of parses I see for any job. Makes me think something is up.

[Jim_Berry]

Content always seems to affect a job or two each time. I learned this from my many years of FFXI (2005 to 2014). At some point, people didn't want BLM (because of Nyzul Isle spam). With the release of Abyssea, BLM rose to shine while DRK and PLD dropped. I see the same thing going on here in FFXIV. I'd advise us to just stick with the job we love, and not drop it just because it's not needed in certain content or lacking in certain areas.

[MetalXR]

Ninja is still good, just not great, the Mudra lag hasnt been fixed and probably never will. I did 943 DPS with i186 and doing LB3 and LB1 with BR ping, using Battleping to help with mudra lag and Im just gonna go back to MNK next week with the eso weapon, but still Ninja isnt that bad atm, its just that the fights that we are comparing are really hard to compare with other classes, now if we start talking about Dummy parsers, yeah Ninja is behind but not that far behind, whats happening is that Ninja must crit his combo skills, and atm Ninja has the lowest crit compared to the other melees, its just impossible to compare when you have IR trait on MNK, 20s 15% buff on DRG and a 100% crit skill/action on both of them. Id say that if they fixed Mudra Lag and lowered the CD on DWAD to 60s Ninja would be better, wouldnt catch up 100% on DPS but still would feel much more rewarding to play, which is a thing that both melees got, fixes to their problems, DRG had low utility and DPS in general compared to NIN/MNK in 2.0, MNK had problems keeping up GL when PB was down or there was a big downtime, but Ninja got 2 utility skills that arent that rewarding to use (just like MNK got Purification that atm is useless).

[Atreides]

(just like MNK got Purification that atm is useless).

Purification is all but useless, it's a really nice ability and pretty much solves all our TP problems, so we don't rely on Ninja or BRD TP song. I'm sure bards lose more DPS from Paeon than you lose for using purification instead of Forbidden Chakra.

[MetalXR]

Purification is all but useless, it's a really nice ability and pretty much solves all our TP problems, so we don't rely on Ninja or BRD TP song. I'm sure bards lose more DPS from Paeon than you lose for using purification instead of Forbidden Chakra.

I agree thats worth it using it, but what I meant is, you cant starv in content(meaning A1 and A3, since idk if anyone cares about A2 DPS) atm thats why I think Its kinda useless.

[Craiger]

If you NINs are gonna keep making threads about how you need a buff, please don't use MNK as a referencing point as to why you need that buff...

It's not like MNKs are being picked ahead of NINs or anything. If you use a DRK, which seems to be a good choice for A1 and A3 at least, then MNK becomes weak compared to NIN and DRG... Mantra alone doesn't make up for the utility and raid DPS than NIN gives you, and DRG just blows them out of the water with their DPS, as well as Litany...

Do you guys even consider Trick Attack? It might not seem like a huge increase overall for your group, and it isn't huge, but it makes them do more party DPS than MNK. You can't just be egotistic and only care about the DPS you get, because if you increase the overall DPS of the group, you're effectively doing more DPS than the parse is saying (I count that raid bonus as NIN's own DPS)

I'm not saying Tick Attack and the other utility makes up for the massive amount of DPS DRG can get (they give raid DPS in form of BRD/MCH buff), but MNK is the job that needs the buff the most, and still I don't see a ton of posts about that...

[Adventica6]

Mnk needs buff? did you get enough sleep?

This is a nin discussion on how bad are tp and hw skills are, not about how mnk needs a buff instead.

[MetalXR]

Mnk needs buff? did you get enough sleep?

This is a nin discussion on how bad are tp and hw skills are, not about how mnk needs a buff instead.

I feel like the topic went from Ninja needing buffs to all the melees needing a better balance, thats why I talked about MNK, I play all three of them at the highest level, thats why I think I can point out what they need to change and thats my opinion, and yes, IMO MNK needs a buff, same as Ninja, Ninja is just not rewarding to play as a Main DPS class, now if you start thinking about the Utility side, yes then Ninja starts to get a better feeling, but just not as rewarding to the player.

If you NINs are gonna keep making threads about how you need a buff, please don't use MNK as a referencing point as to why you need that buff...

It's not like MNKs are being picked ahead of NINs or anything. If you use a DRK, which seems to be a good choice for A1 and A3 at least, then MNK becomes weak compared to NIN and DRG... Mantra alone doesn't make up for the utility and raid DPS than NIN gives you, and DRG just blows them out of the water with their DPS, as well as Litany...

Do you guys even consider Trick Attack? It might not seem like a huge increase overall for your group, and it isn't huge, but it makes them do more party DPS than MNK. You can't just be egotistic and only care about the DPS you get, because if you increase the overall DPS of the group, you're effectively doing more DPS than the parse is saying (I count that raid bonus as NIN's own DPS)

I'm not saying Tick Attack and the other utility makes up for the massive amount of DPS DRG can get (they give raid DPS in form of BRD/MCH buff), but MNK is the job that needs the buff the most, and still I don't see a ton of posts about that...

I totally agree with you about the NIN/MNK part, and I agree on the DRG part too, what I was trying to point out on my post was the reward for playing the Class, when you play MCH/BRD you understand that even tho you can play fully DPS, you still have a great utility part and thats a core part of your class, but for a melee to have that and to get rekt by a DRG with more/or really close to the same utility it just doesnt feel right and I feel that the balance is lacking here.

[Craiger]

Mnk needs buff? did you get enough sleep?

Not sure what you mean... You think NIN needs a buff and MNK don't? MNK and NIN DPS are close right now, and NIN have better utility on top of that.

This is a nin discussion on how bad are tp and hw skills are, not about how mnk needs a buff instead.

*sigh*

The OP even said he felt the gap between NIN and MNK/DRG widening... So I don't think it's wrong of me to talk about the difference between NIN and MNK.

NIN have slightly lower or on par DPS to MNK, but with Trick Attack they are the better option for DPS. On top of that, they have some great utility that shouldn't be underestimated. The only thing that's keeping MNK in the game with NIN and DRG, is their INT debuff, but I don't think that makes up for it all, and if you bring a DRK, MNK are miles behind.

Does NIN need a buff? yes. Is NIN behind MNK? No... They both need a buff. Whether the relative difference between NIN and MNK should be kept is another matter, but at least don't suggest only NIN should get a buff to bridge the gap to DRG

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*

The funny thing is, from what I keep reading, NIN is behind in Heavensward content. If you go back and do, say, Final Coil, you'll see NIN still hitting higher.