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Thread: Astro in savage

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  1. #1
    Player
    Galdous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    231
    Character
    Galdous Tansarville
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
    I think everyone agrees AST needs further changes. Just not in the dps department.
    I think I am only seeing the same few people agree. Alot of people also feel that Astrologian job is in a very good place and will perform as well as the other healers in Savage which they seem to be doing well in.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    kiraan's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    263
    Character
    Kiraan Kosmos
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Galdous View Post
    I think I am only seeing the same few people agree. Alot of people also feel that Astrologian job is in a very good place and will perform as well as the other healers in Savage which they seem to be doing well in.
    No, just no ... AST is not in a very good place, it struggles to do what the 2 others can do much more easily. So please stop spreading misinformation.

    Like its been said a million times already, we know that its not impossible to clear A1S but it shouldn't be that much more demanding than on other healers jobs.

    Its not because some people can clear it that suddenly we should turn a blind eye on all the flaws of the job.
    (15)

  3. #3
    Player
    Galdous's Avatar
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    Nov 2014
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    Character
    Galdous Tansarville
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Trying to mispread information yourself? Thematically it is impossible for Astrologian to be so far behind white mage and scholar that they struggle since astro is only 20 potency behind white mage. That negates to barely 100 hps lost along with the strongest (on 40 second cooldown) instant cast heal int he game with upwards of 1k potency if you learn to time it properly along with light speed which i clocked an astro burst healing for about 2k single target I am not not sure you are just trying to make a mountain out of a ant hill.

    Astro is not as simple as scholar or white mage. It takes thought and coordination to maximize your card use but to claim they are not in a good situation is worse then spreading misinformation. It is borderline lying. If astro could not handle Savage then we would have issues but we so far have too little data to back your claim but actual proof that astro's are healing savage mode. Wait and see instead of yelling the sky is falling please.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    GideonHighmourn's Avatar
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    May 2015
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    364
    Character
    Gideon Highmourn
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Galdous View Post
    Trying to mispread information yourself? Thematically it is impossible for Astrologian to be so far behind white mage and scholar that they struggle since astro is only 20 potency behind white mage.
    It's getting really tiring hearing this. Potency of heals is not the issue; it's the distinct lack of healing cool downs and ways to increase throughput when needed that AST lacks compared to SCH/WHM.
    (20)

  5. #5
    Player
    Parawill's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Lavender Beds
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    366
    Character
    Spark Joy
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Galdous View Post
    Trying to mispread information yourself? Thematically it is impossible for Astrologian to be so far behind white mage and scholar that they struggle since astro is only 20 potency behind white mage. That negates to barely 100 hps lost along with the strongest (on 40 second cooldown) instant cast heal int he game with upwards of 1k potency if you learn to time it properly along with light speed which i clocked an astro burst healing for about 2k single target I am not not sure you are just trying to make a mountain out of a ant hill.

    Astro is not as simple as scholar or white mage. It takes thought and coordination to maximize your card use but to claim they are not in a good situation is worse then spreading misinformation. It is borderline lying. If astro could not handle Savage then we would have issues but we so far have too little data to back your claim but actual proof that astro's are healing savage mode. Wait and see instead of yelling the sky is falling please.
    Astrologian base heals are the most mana efficient heals in the game in terms of potency per mana. Their potencies are fine; however, what everyone is talking about is BOOSTING those potencies through the use of cooldowns. At this current moment, Astrologians do not have many tools to mitigate enough damage OR boost healing potency like Fey Illumination, Rouse or Divine Seal can in situations where you stem away from sustained healing into burst-like healing.

    Since Astrologians suffer from GCD syndrome like White Mages did in 2.0, just imagine White Mage without Cure III, Presence of Mind, Divine Seal, Assize, Benediction and Asylum (I left tetragrammaton because despite Essential Dignity being awesome, it does not top to 100%) with 4 additional swiftcasts instead. You're stuck relying on the other healer to heal during GCDs or your regens--which by the way, is the worst thing to rely on when you need someone at a certain HP pool before the global HoT tick happens.

    EDIT 2: I forgot about Cure III.
    EDIT 3: In case there are some players who do not understand raid healing, healers have 5 things working against them:

    - GCD (Time until next heal)
    - Time (Incoming Damage)
    - Resources (MP, Cooldowns)
    - Human Error (Avoidable damage taken, mechanics not being done, cooldowns not being used properly, etc.)
    - Group Class Proficiency (Entire raid group is working around 90% or 100% to the maximum class potencial--numbers pulled out of thin air, but it should be easy to understand that if you have a raid group who is pushing their respective classes close to their limits in the bare minimum iLvL, things should be relatively easier. The only thing that cancels out proficiency is stat walls such as Savage A3 at the moment).
    (8)
    Last edited by Parawill; 07-24-2015 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Forgot about 50+ WHM spells

  6. #6
    Player
    Tyla_Esmeraude's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    344
    Character
    Tyla Esmeraude
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    I am sure the Devs will only listen to the feedback from lvl 60 ASTs that are doing Savage and not a level zero AST with no experience with the job whatsoever, whose intentions are being too obvious now. I am not going to be rude, but I do ask to please stop spreading misinformation if you don't have experience with the job and less with it in Savage.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiraan View Post
    No, just no ... AST is not in a very good place, it struggles to do what the 2 others can do much more easily. So please stop spreading misinformation.

    Like its been said a million times already, we know that its not impossible to clear A1S but it shouldn't be that much more demanding than on other healers jobs.

    Its not because some people can clear it that suddenly we should turn a blind eye on all the flaws of the job.
    Kiraan, he is just trolling, don't even bother. lol
    (7)
    Last edited by Tyla_Esmeraude; 07-24-2015 at 09:24 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Zholi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    185
    Character
    U'zholi Khem
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 75
    Quote Originally Posted by Galdous View Post
    I think I am only seeing the same few people agree. Alot of people also feel that Astrologian job is in a very good place and will perform as well as the other healers in Savage which they seem to be doing well in.
    No. A lot of people do not think that. Just about the only ones who do are the handful of people posting that on this forum. Do you know how many people think AST is in a "very good place" right now in the 100+ page thread about them on the JP forums? Exactly zero. Like it or not, in light of literally thousands of examples of negative feedback, AST is going to be changed, despite the fact that about five people on the Western forum feel an inexplicable need to shout from the rooftops that everything is fine even as the world crumbles all around them. This kind of behavior seems to be a distinctly Western phenomenon. Our forum is a cesspool of idiocy and argumentation, as a select few feel the need to shout down the opinions of the majority every few posts, and distract from providing constructive feedback as we have to drop everything to surgically dismantle your fallacious and frankly delusional "points." People talk about the "silent majority" who think AST is fine. On what grounds do you say this? The posts that point out the issues with AST garner in some cases hundreds of likes, while the posts that say everything is fine struggle to break out of the single-digit ghetto. The majority of people I see in-game seem to think AST is in a very bad spot, and the longer the job is allowed to languish in its current state, the more those numbers grow.

    Unfortunately, the forums for our language are virtually useless for constructive feedback. On the Japanese forums, instead of everyone feeling the need to post and repost the same opinions endlessly, they make copious use of the "like" button. Posts routinely garner 40+ likes, even hundreds of pages into a thread. You can see at a glance with a numerical value how most people feel about something. Here you'd be lucky to gather even a single shred of useful information from the noise. I do not envy the job of the American and European community teams in trying to select useful bits of feedback from this mess to have translated and relayed to the developers.

    As someone who had been looking forward to AST before its release, and playing it regularly since, I have a particular interest in this issue and have been following it closely. I have looked carefully at data points from all sources I can find, and by absolutely every objective measurement, AST is inferior to the other two healers, and I assure you this is much to my chagrin. It gives me absolutely no pleasure to say that this is the worst release-state we've ever seen for a job in FFXIV since its relaunch to date, eclipsing even the debacle of 2.0 Warrior by quite a bit. The situation is dire, and I cannot emphasize this enough. I am in one of the top two free companies in the world and help with the management thereof. I personally know all of the top English-speaking players (and more importantly, healers) in the world, and I hope they don't mind me saying this, but not a single one of them has a favorable opinion of AST. And, apologies to everyone else, quality of opinion does matter when it comes to these issues, and these people have a higher quality of opinion than anyone else I know. When it comes to the efficacy and balance of jobs in a raiding environment, we are experts. We have to be to compete on the world progression stage.

    All of that said, I am speaking for myself, and not on behalf of the FC. Hence I am not mentioning them by name. I am not in any of our world top 3 groups. However, I have done progression raiding at a high level, and have achieved world and/or server top 10 on various things. With suboptimal jobs. Jobs that SE had to buff on account of their weakness. Never has anything been as bad for any job as it is for AST right now.

    Here are my personal opinions on the abilities of Astrologian:
    • Lightspeed - Initially worthless, the most recent update made this marginally beneficial to use. It is still extremely underwhelming, however. For a 150 second cooldown, it allows you to cast 3-4 spells at a slightly reduced cost, with little to no cast time. It still activates the global cooldown, so it provides little to no benefit to healing throughput.
    • Enhanced Lightspeed - This trait is useless, especially in light of the recent adjustments. Nobody will ever use Lightspeed for attack magic.
    • Luminiferous Aether - Essentially a copy of Shroud of Saints. This is the only reliable form of MP restoration AST has. With SCH's historical lack of mana issues, along with WHM gaining Assize, leaving AST with the same MP situation as a 2.0 WHM is inexcusable. The fact that we can use Ewer to cover this weakness is simply not a justification for the situation. In order to consistently match the MP regeneration of the other healers, we would have to draw Ewer at a statistically impossible rate.
    • Enhanced Benefic - Useless. Still have to wait for the GCD. Does nothing but force you to check whether you have the buff or not so it doesn't throw off your timing.
    • Essential Dignity - There is nothing inherently wrong with this skill. It is instant, off the GCD, and it heals. However, as our only emergency cooldown, the benefit of its relatively short recast is lost. We must jealously guard this, at is the only thing that can possibly hope to dig us out of a bad situation.
    • Stella - Useless. Low potency, very niche effect, takes up an ability slot in a job that is desperately hurting for useful ones. The additional effect could easily have been rolled in with Malefic, as Malefic becomes completely obsolete at 60.
    • Disable - Only usable on attacks with cast bars. Some things you want/need to mitigate do not have cast bars. Prone to getting eaten by an auto-attack in many situations.
    • Synastry - Decent, but the recast is simply too high for what it does. Additionally, it is restricted to direct single target heals.
    • Time Dilation - Decent.
    • Collective Unconscious - Useless. Being unable to move or act in order to retain the effect is an extremely high penalty that isn't worth what is given in return. The effect needs to be very good to justify the extreme cost of maintaining it.
    • Celestial Opposition - Useless. A stun on a 150s cooldown is laughable, as is a 5 second increase in buffs. If this skill were removed from the game just about nothing would change enough to notice.
    • Cards - Useless. That's right. Taken as a whole, they are useless. The buff strength is simply too small. Their power needs to be boosted so much that most people's initial reaction will be that the developers have gone overboard. The only thing that will allow the card system as a whole to be useful is for individual buffs to be very powerful. Because of the randomness of cards, these effects that at first glance seem extreme will balance out over time. Some of the card effects may even need to be changed entirely (Spear).
    • Nocturnal Sect - Useless. The effective HPS, even after shields are taken into account, is astonishingly low. In Nocturnal Sect, AST is the only healer in the game without some form of passive healing that can be active at virtually all times. For WHM it is Regen effects. For SCH it is their fairy. For Diurnal AST it is Regen effects. For Nocturnal AST it is nothing. To add insult to injury, their shielding ability is far worse than SCH. The healing increase provided by the stance itself is also effectively useless and does nothing to cover these weaknesses.

    I hope you are prepared for an extremely heavy workload if you want to fix this job. I also encourage you to improve your testing protocol, because releasing a job in this state is not something that should ever happen.
    (24)
    Last edited by Zholi; 07-25-2015 at 07:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Arcana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Ragnar Sigurdsson
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 66
    Quote Originally Posted by Zholi View Post

    I hope you are prepared for an extremely heavy workload if you want to fix this job. I also encourage you to improve your testing protocol, because releasing a job in this state is not something that should ever happen.
    I thought the same. I think SE AST designer did not a good job releasing the job in the actual state. Maybe he could be tested the job in Alexander Savage or check the global numbers vs the other healing class.

    I am lvling whm right now because i think the AST rework it take several months that i dont want to wait. SE guys, take your time, do your tests but re-release a great healing-suport class again. The western and JP community will be happy ;3
    (4)