Can we please start thinking rationally again?

[Hanmerreborn]

I have noticed many of these complaint threads are filled with the same dozen or so people so I expect the amount of people upset about this are not anywhere near the level others might make out and as such while I expect will be some changes to red scripts sooner or later it will not change SE's stance on trying to force specializations and people working together to create things like they have to do now with regards to FC airships and such.

I fail to see your argument. Not a single person in this thread has said you won't be able to nickel and dime everyone with the way scripts are currently structured. In fact most say the opposite.

They are saying that kills the whole point of crafting and is cost prohibitive to people who aren't sitting on a mountain of gil.

[Sibyll]

I plan to continue crafting/leveling my crafters and gatherers and continue buying and selling materials just to spite you and everyone else who says such hyperbolic and melodramatic things like crafting is dead. Your free to do whatever you want with your own character on the other hand and while the cat is away the mouse shall play...plus profit from your absence.

You realize high-end crafters profit primarily from crafters trying to gear up so if all the lower crafters give up then you'll have no customers to buy your overpriced gear right?

Just looking at the recipes I'm not irritated at all by this design because I have no motivation to get there in a rush. DoH continues to serve no real purpose to DoW/DoM aside from Culinarian. Gating gear progression like this might not be a big deal because we really don't know when we will need those stats. If you already meet the 2* recipe requirements then the rest is just gravy. However, the red scrips being attached to the materials is the equivalent of a cool down on a recipe, essentially preventing any single player from controlling the boards unless they buy these mats from other players. Such a design is fine when you are making gear that is relevant to raid progression, but this gear isn't. That means the only gear it realistically is gating is the DoH gear that may not be necessary for any recipes in this upcoming patch.

[Radial]

I never heard them say that. I only heard them say they wanted to make it more accessible to people who wanted a few crafts and not make omnicrafting mandatory. Redscrips is just nuking omnicrafting from orbit for no reason...

[gzuscry]

I have noticed...

Many many many dont complain at all they just accept silently, but they do react in their decision making and how they move onwards. Most of the time they do it exactly in the same manner as us complainers - drop the trade and find something other to do that gives them enjoyment, many will outright drop subscribtion and move on, not droping a single comment anywhere.
Its because complainers have mastered their trade to voice detailed opinions and give massive feedback is that you see changes happening at all. Many of those complainers are very introvert themselfs and they wont complain unless there is icebreaker.
If SE dont react to our complains they will see massive drop in crafting, because we will rage for short while, only while we still feel its relevant. If SE dont react in long time then the game will die of natural death faster than devs intended, just like 1.0 did. Do you think a second cold sweating appologizer on his knees is gonna save the franchize?

[QuinceTaru]

Melded i170 HQ gear is better than i180 vendor gear. It takes about 14 Craftsmanship and 5 Control worth of melds to make a chest better than the i180 counterpart. Which is achievable without even using a Tier 5 materia at all. Each craft takes about 3-4 Red Scrips materials so you'll be getting 2-3 new gear pieces a week on your own if you're diligent, which makes about 28-32 weeks to get all 61 items. You, again, have it better than battle classes who can now never ever hope again to have all battle classes evenly geared.

This may be true that we have it better than battle classes but to craft all of it you also need to have gathering maxed out for the favors, its like asking a battle class if you want your eso armor you better lvl fishing and catch it.

[Neophyte]

Do you need the BiS-gear at all for the new recipes, which got added now? I don't think so, or are the crafted DoH-gears (which should be craftable without that same gear) not at top level?

If not, i can't really see the need of all crafters BiS-geared within few weeks.. isn't it enough to gear your favourite class and the other ones after the cap is raised and the mats drop in price?
If ilvl 150-melded stuff is enough (+ mainhand for reds) and BiS only makes it easier to hq i'll just wait for cap-raise, selling my upgrade-mats to ppl who can't wait.
I mean... i'm mainly CLN and i can already craft the highest food in hq mostly and with the new main for sure. There is no new food within this patch. So why should i really need all the gear right now?

There were timeframes mentioned from about 20-60 weeks for BiS-gearing all 8 classes. Do you even know how long it would take to BiS-gear 8x DoW/M (or just take 3 classes: 1x tank, 1x heal, 1x dps) with actual caps and drop limits?

QuinceTaur mentioned that you need other DoL/DoH too..
but gearing/leveling a DoH/DoL to lvl 60 takes about 1/4 (if not less) of the time leveling an DoW/M (e.g. they can't get RNG company deliveries netting 1,8 million XP, collectabels netting 100k per 20%-HQchance-craft) and you need only 2 sets of gear to be "red scrip"-ready with all your lvl 60 DoH/DoL (and not 1 set for tanks/healer/mages/dexbased/strbased to be Savage-Rdy with all DoW/M)...
while mentioned DoH/DoL-gear can be crafted/bought (for less than 1-2 Million Gil) and the DoW/M-gear must be farmed, with the ilvl 190-stepstones for your BiS-gear still gated per weekly limit, too.

[BalthierDragoon]

I don't see anything rational in comparing DoH/DoL classes with DoW/DoM.

DoW/DoM classes have content, dungeons, trials, raids. You don't need to gear all of them up to do this content.

DoL/DoH classes have a couple of job quests and that's it. Once you've leveled all of them, you got nothing to do. Previously we could craft gear for battle classes in our FC. Now we can craft some glamours and bardings on rare occasions.

The only thing crafters can do for fun is to craft, and all "fun" recipes are weekly capped to 2-3 crafts per week.
Yeah, we can keep crafting food for raiders and forget about other DoH classes, but I don't think that this is a good system.

There are many casual players like me, who don't have time to be in static and do hardcore raiding DoW/DoM content. One of the reasons I liked this game is the variety of fun things I could do besides raiding. The huge part of it was crafting. And now when the fun is gone, I think I'll take a break from the game.

[Lito00]

Many many many dont complain at all they just accept silently, but they do react in their decision making and how they move onwards. Most of the time they do it exactly in the same manner as us complainers - drop the trade and find something other to do that gives them enjoyment, many will outright drop subscribtion and move on, not droping a single comment anywhere.
Its because complainers have mastered their trade to voice detailed opinions and give massive feedback is that you see changes happening at all. Many of those complainers are very introvert themselfs and they wont complain unless there is icebreaker.
If SE dont react to our complains they will see massive drop in crafting, because we will rage for short while, only while we still feel its relevant. If SE dont react in long time then the game will die of natural death faster than devs intended, just like 1.0 did. Do you think a second cold sweating appologizer on his knees is gonna save the franchize?

I could not have said it better myself. I don't think the devs (or even us as players) realize how big of a negative impact this crafting/gathering decision will have on the game. It is a bigger deal that we think.

[Neophyte]

I don't see anything rational in comparing DoH/DoL classes with DoW/DoM.

DoW/DoM classes have content, dungeons, trials, raids. You don't need to gear all of them up to do this content.

That was my main question. Do you need all of the DoH-gear to do all crafting-content?

If there wasn't savage, i wouldn't care myself how long it would take to get esoteric gear or alexander normal loot. It could take as long as it takes to get new content for which I actually need it.

Right now I'm not totally in the new recipes, but are the old ones worthless already?
Assumed that the ilvl 150 gear (hq, melded) might be enough for crafting most of the (good selling) stuff I just don't see the need for getting the new gear (except main hand) fast at all.
Wouldn't it be "fun" to sell those 150-gear? Remember, it will last weeks before ppl can get better gear for more than one DoH-class, so ppl (especially new) will still be highly interested in that kind of gear.

And so I don't see why now (few weeks after release) crafting the "old" (i.e. 4 weeks old) stuff is soooo much less fun, than crafting the "new" stuff.
I mean, ALC got now "Grade 2 **** Dissolvent" and CLN got.. yo, nothing at all. I have still fun.

I mean.. most of my buddy-crafters had "fun" on start of 3.0 (with all those new recipes) to craft Kirimu Coat for weeks (and farming for the mats) or stuff for low level DRK, MCH, AST... 'cause they were selling like hot cakes.


What I dislike the most is that there is no good DoW/M-gear and no glamour available at all. No demand means no meaning in crafting it at all.
But regarding the DoH-BiS-gear I'm totally fine with it as it is.

[GunnarWolfram]

So the biggest thing that gets me having taken a look at the red scrip turn-ins, is that this is either going to be expensive, or I am going to have to beg friends for mats. I am a casual player, I have maybe enough time to do a few crafts at lunch, get my roulettes done, and then if I am not doing anything in the evening a few more crafts/hunts. I do not have a gatherer at 60 so I cannot collect the mats necessary to craft the red scrips. On Cactuar it will cost me 1-2million a week to cap on red scrips. This does not feel casual. This feels over bearing and it saddens me because I feel like I can't enjoy the content unless I am hardcore. I am cool with it taking me 8 weeks to get all my items, for one craft, thats cool. But its gonna cost me 16 million unless I get my gathering classes up.

Esoterics simply take being a DoW/DoM to cap. Gatherer's Red Scrips simply take being a DoL to cap. Crafter's Red Scrips take Being a DoL/DoW/DoM/DoH to cap, and that just feels overwhelming. I am trying to be rational but unless I am missing something I do not see how this works for a casual crafter.