Can we please start thinking rationally again?

[Snugglebutt]

Rationally, it would be better off if all the crafters stopped for a month or two. At least then there is some small chance that the system would be redone in some way that isn't atrociously weighted towards supercompanies and omnicrafters.

I plan to continue crafting/leveling my crafters and gatherers and continue buying and selling materials just to spite you and everyone else who says such hyperbolic and melodramatic things like crafting is dead. Your free to do whatever you want with your own character on the other hand and while the cat is away the mouse shall play...plus profit from your absence.

I have noticed many of these complaint threads are filled with the same dozen or so people so I expect the amount of people upset about this are not anywhere near the level others might make out and as such while I expect will be some changes to red scripts sooner or later it will not change SE's stance on trying to force specializations and people working together to create things like they have to do now with regards to FC airships and such.

[Aeyis]

I have noticed many of these complaint threads are filled with the same dozen or so people so I expect the amount of people upset about this are not anywhere near the level others might make out and as such while I expect will be some changes to red scripts sooner or later it will not change SE's stance on trying to force specializations and people working together to create things like they have to do now with regards to FC airships and such.

Most people dont post on the forums. And many that do will avoid discussion threads on the official forums, because there are a good many posters that are like ''the turian councilor'' in the way they argue.

So im not sure if counting the number of people posting is a good estimate.

[Jerichai]

I have noticed many of these complaint threads are filled with the same dozen or so people so I expect the amount of people upset about this are not anywhere near the level others might make out and as such while I expect will be some changes to red scripts sooner or later it will not change SE's stance on trying to force specializations and people working together to create things like they have to do now with regards to FC airships and such.

On that note I also see the same handful of individuals like yourself who rather put others down that try to promote productive conversation. But to each their own I guess..

[Sakasa]

On that note I also see the same handful of individuals like yourself who rather put others down that try to promote productive conversation. But to each their own I guess..

Yeah! Not like when you chime in to attack someone specifically! Fight that oppression of free speech with attacks on individuals instead of the content in their post! Don't let your ideals be ideals! Just do it...

Teaming with other players is a zero sum game though. In order to progress your gear faster they are delaying their own progress. It doesn't actually speed anything up. And if someone cares enough to be able to make red scripts and gather them in the first place, why would they set themselves back 4-8 weeks just so you can look shinier faster?

Similar to how coke, animal fat, potash were all someone using their weekly cap battle tomes to put them on market? Also the fact that many people are not going to go for the top of the line gear until it is required so they will cash in knowing they can find someone to make it for them later at what now would be a cutthroat price. The system hasn't changed we just have an artifical gap instead of a time delay between patches. If your angry be angry I understand the system is lopsided it always was but it also is equally fair (punishing). The gil that people will use to bypass it is still a time sync on someone so time lost is the currency of the system.

Also I never remember this promise to kill omni crafters. Wasn't it only stated you would not have to be an omni crafter to progress? I swore that statement was intentionally used to point out how piece by piece was randomly required for masterbook 2 and byergot's Blessing was required to hq anything in masterbook 2 even with a perfect good and excellent pattern while using hq mats. Which is why the other byergot's was given to every class albiet weaker.

Esoterics simply take being a DoW/DoM to cap. Gatherer's Red Scrips simply take being a DoL to cap. Crafter's Red Scrips take Being a DoL/DoW/DoM/DoH to cap, and that just feels overwhelming. I am trying to be rational but unless I am missing something I do not see how this works for a casual crafter.

You are right Gunnar the grind has been pushed on to you to proceed because it is time locked so you loose the ability to proceed the less time you have comitted. But as a casual crafter do you feel it is required for you to cap every week? Because for the crafted items tokens (purified coke, etc.) you can get 9 per week if you capped but as a casual crafter getting 2-4 sets would be more reasonable. So I was just wondering is it the road to full completion or just the requirement per week?

[PotatoWafflez]

You are right Gunnar the grind has been pushed on to you to proceed because it is time locked so you loose the ability to proceed the less time you have comitted. But as a casual crafter do you feel it is required for you to cap every week? Because for the crafted items tokens (purified coke, etc.) you can get 9 per week if you capped but as a casual crafter getting 2-4 sets would be more reasonable. So I was just wondering is it the road to full completion or just the requirement per week?

I'm having similar issues to Gunnar and I will say that in my case just getting the mats for blue scripts is a headache because you can't really prep them a head of time as a casual player and if the hand in didn't change from day to day I would be 100% happier because I could just stock pile the mats I will need when I get a chance and can craft them at my leisure but as it stands I either have to gather and craft as I go which is just annoying or I have to stock pile lots of different mats which is costly in time/gil/space, I would be even more happier if it used a token system like the artisan gear because I'm also then not wasting mats on items that could be used by players if not collectables.

TLDR: The mats required do not justify the "reward" for someone who is trying to get into crafting which from what I gather was the whole point of the system.
There is already a cap why do they need to make it a bigger grind for those with less resources.

[Sakasa]

TLDR: The mats required do not justify the "reward" for someone who is trying to get into crafting which from what I gather was the whole point of the system.
There is already a cap why do they need to make it a bigger grind for those with less resources.

Ok, i get it now and I am sorry it's putting you off. If a systematic turn in cycle was found so you can plan for 18hrs ahead would that work for you or does that seem even more stressful since you might not make a lockout?

I've struck a nerve it seems.

You didn't mate I am dead on the inside sadly, but having a nice quid pro quo leaves a decent structure. Who watches the watcher if you will.

[PotatoWafflez]

Ok, i get it now and I am sorry it's putting you off. If a systematic turn in cycle was found so you can plan for 18hrs ahead would that work for you or does that seem even more stressful since you might not make a lockout?

Either being able to see or know what is coming up the next day or even the week if they wanted to be kind would help but it still doesn't really motivate the average player to set aside the time required with all the timed nodes and hidden items that are required in some cases for the 8/16 script return in regards to red scripts.
The fact that crafters with lots more resources are able to cap in under 30 minutes does not really justify dragging it out for the rest of us just so more mats can be removed from the economy.

They either need a daily bonus so that you can cap if you do one hand in a day for the week or they need to boost the script reward, if what they said is true and they want this to be the way crafting becomes more accessible, if that is not the case well then I'll either just stop crafting or just have to try and fit more prep work in somewhere but it is neither fun nor rewarding for me at the moment.

People will still cap on day one regardless of if they change it or not so if you want to be all "but then its too easy!" what difference does it actually make to anyone who isn't worse off than you?
Its like saying people should get less tomes from dungeons because they have worse gear or because they took longer or because they just unlocked it.
If you are able to make the hand-ins you should be able to cap in a reasonable time frame without needing mats set aside ahead of time. But that is just my opinion.

[GunnarWolfram]

You are right Gunnar the grind has been pushed on to you to proceed because it is time locked so you loose the ability to proceed the less time you have comitted. But as a casual crafter do you feel it is required for you to cap every week? Because for the crafted items tokens (purified coke, etc.) you can get 9 per week if you capped but as a casual crafter getting 2-4 sets would be more reasonable. So I was just wondering is it the road to full completion or just the requirement per week?

The first problem is those crafted item tokens require me to be a red scrip gatherer to get items necessary to make those sets. I am not bound by myself as a crafter alone, I depend on someone else or another class to provide me a scarce resource, which the only incentive for gatherer's is to make money off people who have the money to buy it. Otherwise I suspect they are upgrading their gear with the scrips, since crafter's dont make anything other than accessories and off hands.

It has more to do with the fact that as a casual player I am able to do other content that is weekly capped with limited play time. To cap DoM/DoW I need 35-40min a day for 6 days in roulettes to cap. The time investment caters to casuals and if I want to be hardcore I can complete it in less than 6 days but that is not what I personally choose to do. The key is that I do not have to be any other class to complete this, I do not have to spend any money to complete this. I am however required to be gatherer or pay the market price and hope that I do not get bad RNG and not meet the collectible requirement.

So as a casual player, what is my incentive? Why would I craft if the effort does not reflect the reward? If I could provide DoM/DoW with gear that would be awesome, maybe I spend the extra time/effort/money to do this. But as it stands right now I can repair my gear, I can meld my gear, and I COULD craft my gear if I pay for it, so why do the red scrips?

[Hanmerreborn]

I have noticed many of these complaint threads are filled with the same dozen or so people so I expect the amount of people upset about this are not anywhere near the level others might make out and as such while I expect will be some changes to red scripts sooner or later it will not change SE's stance on trying to force specializations and people working together to create things like they have to do now with regards to FC airships and such.

I fail to see your argument. Not a single person in this thread has said you won't be able to nickel and dime everyone with the way scripts are currently structured. In fact most say the opposite.

They are saying that kills the whole point of crafting and is cost prohibitive to people who aren't sitting on a mountain of gil.