Can we please start thinking rationally again?

[Jerichai]

Difficult doesn't mean it's an unreasonable expectation though. I get that people are upset, and I totally respect that... however I think it is being blow way out of proportion. People can't even decide what they are upset about.. first it's because it will take too long to gear everything so it is pointed out that you can team up with other players.. but they don't want to do that either. This all just reminds me of when my daughter was little and would say she was hungry and when I said I would make her a sandwich and she would turn her nose up at it. Ask her what she wanted? Ice cream. Well.. that's now how that worked and that's not how this works.. people can want something all they want but if it has been decided they aren't going to get it.. then that is that.

Claims to respect people's opinion. Equates voicing complaints/concerns to a child throwing a tantrum. Hmm...yeah okay.

[Hanmerreborn]

Words

Teaming with other players is a zero sum game though. In order to progress your gear faster they are delaying their own progress. It doesn't actually speed anything up. And if someone cares enough to be able to make red scripts and gather them in the first place, why would they set themselves back 4-8 weeks just so you can look shinier faster?

This system only encourages RMT and people with alternate accounts, and benefits people with excessive gold at the cost of EVERYONE else.

The crafting in general flies in the face of everything we were told about specializations and HW in general about not needing "omnicrafters". Know what would make specializations worthwhile and actually be consistent with "killing omnicrafters"? If instead of needing a leather material that requires 50 scripts, a weaver material that requires 50 scripts, and a gold smith item that requires 50 scripts, it only required a single <insert chosen class here> item that required 150 scripts, if we're going to keep with the pointless gating.

What we were told and what we're shown is at complete opposite ends of each other.

It's ****ing crafting. Not a hardcore new raid. Crafting a cool looking outfit to glamor.

OH WAIT THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET THAT RIGHT


Ask yourself. Who does this script thing hurt the most? Who does it help the most?

Then ask yourself. Isn't that the exact opposite of what it should be?

[Nanga]

This system only encourages RMT

It really does, unfortunately.

[TitaniaZero]

Ya Red Scrips are the Estorics for the Crafters.

Yet, we get no drops. Our own attempt to get better gear is still locked on Red Scrips. So a Raider still has it better, because while the drop rate may suck and Estorics are there for that issue, its still superior to the Crafter/Gather's 0%.

[Radial]

I never heard them say that. I only heard them say they wanted to make it more accessible to people who wanted a few crafts and not make omnicrafting mandatory. Redscrips is just nuking omnicrafting from orbit for no reason...

[QuinceTaru]

Melded i170 HQ gear is better than i180 vendor gear. It takes about 14 Craftsmanship and 5 Control worth of melds to make a chest better than the i180 counterpart. Which is achievable without even using a Tier 5 materia at all. Each craft takes about 3-4 Red Scrips materials so you'll be getting 2-3 new gear pieces a week on your own if you're diligent, which makes about 28-32 weeks to get all 61 items. You, again, have it better than battle classes who can now never ever hope again to have all battle classes evenly geared.

This may be true that we have it better than battle classes but to craft all of it you also need to have gathering maxed out for the favors, its like asking a battle class if you want your eso armor you better lvl fishing and catch it.

[Neophyte]

Do you need the BiS-gear at all for the new recipes, which got added now? I don't think so, or are the crafted DoH-gears (which should be craftable without that same gear) not at top level?

If not, i can't really see the need of all crafters BiS-geared within few weeks.. isn't it enough to gear your favourite class and the other ones after the cap is raised and the mats drop in price?
If ilvl 150-melded stuff is enough (+ mainhand for reds) and BiS only makes it easier to hq i'll just wait for cap-raise, selling my upgrade-mats to ppl who can't wait.
I mean... i'm mainly CLN and i can already craft the highest food in hq mostly and with the new main for sure. There is no new food within this patch. So why should i really need all the gear right now?

There were timeframes mentioned from about 20-60 weeks for BiS-gearing all 8 classes. Do you even know how long it would take to BiS-gear 8x DoW/M (or just take 3 classes: 1x tank, 1x heal, 1x dps) with actual caps and drop limits?

QuinceTaur mentioned that you need other DoL/DoH too..
but gearing/leveling a DoH/DoL to lvl 60 takes about 1/4 (if not less) of the time leveling an DoW/M (e.g. they can't get RNG company deliveries netting 1,8 million XP, collectabels netting 100k per 20%-HQchance-craft) and you need only 2 sets of gear to be "red scrip"-ready with all your lvl 60 DoH/DoL (and not 1 set for tanks/healer/mages/dexbased/strbased to be Savage-Rdy with all DoW/M)...
while mentioned DoH/DoL-gear can be crafted/bought (for less than 1-2 Million Gil) and the DoW/M-gear must be farmed, with the ilvl 190-stepstones for your BiS-gear still gated per weekly limit, too.

[BalthierDragoon]

I don't see anything rational in comparing DoH/DoL classes with DoW/DoM.

DoW/DoM classes have content, dungeons, trials, raids. You don't need to gear all of them up to do this content.

DoL/DoH classes have a couple of job quests and that's it. Once you've leveled all of them, you got nothing to do. Previously we could craft gear for battle classes in our FC. Now we can craft some glamours and bardings on rare occasions.

The only thing crafters can do for fun is to craft, and all "fun" recipes are weekly capped to 2-3 crafts per week.
Yeah, we can keep crafting food for raiders and forget about other DoH classes, but I don't think that this is a good system.

There are many casual players like me, who don't have time to be in static and do hardcore raiding DoW/DoM content. One of the reasons I liked this game is the variety of fun things I could do besides raiding. The huge part of it was crafting. And now when the fun is gone, I think I'll take a break from the game.

[Neophyte]

I don't see anything rational in comparing DoH/DoL classes with DoW/DoM.

DoW/DoM classes have content, dungeons, trials, raids. You don't need to gear all of them up to do this content.

That was my main question. Do you need all of the DoH-gear to do all crafting-content?

If there wasn't savage, i wouldn't care myself how long it would take to get esoteric gear or alexander normal loot. It could take as long as it takes to get new content for which I actually need it.

Right now I'm not totally in the new recipes, but are the old ones worthless already?
Assumed that the ilvl 150 gear (hq, melded) might be enough for crafting most of the (good selling) stuff I just don't see the need for getting the new gear (except main hand) fast at all.
Wouldn't it be "fun" to sell those 150-gear? Remember, it will last weeks before ppl can get better gear for more than one DoH-class, so ppl (especially new) will still be highly interested in that kind of gear.

And so I don't see why now (few weeks after release) crafting the "old" (i.e. 4 weeks old) stuff is soooo much less fun, than crafting the "new" stuff.
I mean, ALC got now "Grade 2 **** Dissolvent" and CLN got.. yo, nothing at all. I have still fun.

I mean.. most of my buddy-crafters had "fun" on start of 3.0 (with all those new recipes) to craft Kirimu Coat for weeks (and farming for the mats) or stuff for low level DRK, MCH, AST... 'cause they were selling like hot cakes.


What I dislike the most is that there is no good DoW/M-gear and no glamour available at all. No demand means no meaning in crafting it at all.
But regarding the DoH-BiS-gear I'm totally fine with it as it is.

[GunnarWolfram]

So the biggest thing that gets me having taken a look at the red scrip turn-ins, is that this is either going to be expensive, or I am going to have to beg friends for mats. I am a casual player, I have maybe enough time to do a few crafts at lunch, get my roulettes done, and then if I am not doing anything in the evening a few more crafts/hunts. I do not have a gatherer at 60 so I cannot collect the mats necessary to craft the red scrips. On Cactuar it will cost me 1-2million a week to cap on red scrips. This does not feel casual. This feels over bearing and it saddens me because I feel like I can't enjoy the content unless I am hardcore. I am cool with it taking me 8 weeks to get all my items, for one craft, thats cool. But its gonna cost me 16 million unless I get my gathering classes up.

Esoterics simply take being a DoW/DoM to cap. Gatherer's Red Scrips simply take being a DoL to cap. Crafter's Red Scrips take Being a DoL/DoW/DoM/DoH to cap, and that just feels overwhelming. I am trying to be rational but unless I am missing something I do not see how this works for a casual crafter.