Can we please start thinking rationally again?

[RyDarrick]

Why not?



No, I'm actually serious there. Why shouldn't you be able to do all the crafting you want by yourself? Why should you be forced into a crafting guild as an "apprentice" and have to "pay your dues" gearing up the people who joined before you (small hyperbole -- that's one of the outcomes I can see of this particular mess)? Why should you have to walk away from the group you really enjoy working with because you're the only crafter? Or just one of the only few (not enough to support the new system).

Or, put another way, why should the only people who do well in this system be the ones who have 100million or more gil to get the drop on everyone else? Some of us are rather more modest in wealth AND not all that fond of dealing with large numbers of people. Are we now supposed to be irrelevant?

Totally agree

[Seyb]

No idea what the fuss is all about. You will see that it's a great system to make money out of for everyone.
And your issues with omnicrafters? S-E clearly favours them and that is a great thing. It takes more time, so the output should be better, too.
We do not yet know if the cap on red scrips will be lifted with patch 3.2 (it will most certainly be lifted for esoterics). If it's lifted, all your arguments are moot again.
So why not wait and see? Or is half a year too long to wait?:/ (serious question)

[Aramina]

Why shouldn't you be able to do all the crafting you want by yourself?

Why shouldn't I be able to do all the raiding I want? Because the game is not designed that way. The same answer applies. I get that you could/did before, but I think it has become abundantly clear that was an unintended path by the devs. Yes, some people will still do it (and despite popular opinion, even those without much money like myself), because you can't FORCE someone on a particular path, however you can make damn sure that path is long and/or expensive... and well... they have, right?

[Hanmerreborn]

No idea what the fuss is all about. You will see that it's a great system to make money out of for everyone.
And your issues with omnicrafters? S-E clearly favours them and that is a great thing. It takes more time, so the output should be better, too.
We do not yet know if the cap on red scrips will be lifted with patch 3.2 (it will most certainly be lifted for esoterics). If it's lifted, all your arguments are moot again.
So why not wait and see? Or is half a year too long to wait?:/ (serious question)

Because with 3.2 they'll do a similar system with all the same glaring problems, if feedback isn't given now?

[Hanmerreborn]

Why shouldn\\\\'t I be able to do all the raiding I want? Because the game is not designed that way. The same answer applies. I get that you could/did before, but I think it has become abundantly clear that was an unintended path by the devs. Yes, some people will still do it (and despite popular opinion, even those without much money like myself), because you can\\\\'t FORCE someone on a particular path, however you can make damn sure that path is long and/or expensive... and well... they have, right?

But raiding is for the best content and gear in the game.

If crafting was giving out 210 gear, you\\\\'d have a point.

Currently, for a DoW to get 180 gear, only a time investment is required.

For a DoH to get 180 gear, he is gated by heavy DoH and DoL restrictions where time investment is secondary to mechanics.

Then there\\\\'s the fact that the gear doesn\\\\'t even influence raiding content, just your personal ability to make more stuff.

[Joronas]

Because Crafting and Raiding are DIFFERENT.

Raiders like the challenge of raiding (presumably) and enjoy the victory and progression and the New Shiny Gear. Been there, done that, still doing it. Got a few of the t-shirts.

Crafters ... like CRAFTING. Gatherers ... like GATHERING.

Don't treat them the same, because they aren't. They aren't even in the same ball park. Any comparison between crafters and raiders is doomed to be irrelevant. They aren't the same. It's not even an apples to oranges thing.


Also ... It has not become abundantly clear that omnicrafters were unintended. Because I would say it's fundamentally clear that they WERE intended. Otherwise the 50 skills would not be cross-class.

[Aramina]

Also ... It has not become abundantly clear that omnicrafters were unintended. Because I would say it's fundamentally clear that they WERE intended. Otherwise the 50 skills would not be cross-class.

Being able to cross-class skill in no way means it was intended to cross-class ALL of them. >.>

As for the first part... I suggest you go back and re-read prior posts... and then my post... then maybe come to the truth that I was in no way comparing the act of raiding with the act of crafting. What I WAS doing was saying that NO ONE has the right to earn every accomplishment in the game simply because they want to. You can sit and scream that the goals that you want should be handled differently all you want... but it's not likely to change anything.

[MN_14]

Also ... It has not become abundantly clear that omnicrafters were unintended. Because I would say it's fundamentally clear that they WERE intended. Otherwise the 50 skills would not be cross-class.

It seems to me that omni-crafting was not necessarily intended when 2.0 first launched. 1* and 2* crafts could be easily HQed with only a single class at level 50. Things changed when 3* was introduced, quite possibly in response to all the rng free rotations floating around for 1* and 2* crafts. But even then, only byregot's blessing was absolutely necessary.

When 2.4 launched, however, the omni-crafter direction kicked in full force. Suddenly, BIS gear that could be shared among all classes was introduced and the master book 2 tokens and 4* crafts required you to have most classes at 50 to effectively HQ them. The changes we're seeing now are probably in response to the number of players that complained about needing to level all classes to 50 in order to craft effectively and compete on the market. Clearly, there's been some overcompensation since we seem to be getting the worst of both worlds. Omni-crafters can't easily gear all classes and specialists can't afford the materials to easily level or obtain scrips.

[Seyb]

Because with 3.2 they'll do a similar system with all the same glaring problems, if feedback isn't given now?

How can you be so sure? We all know that it's a huge waste of time to gear all your DOW/DOM to BiS or even max iLvl (actually it's not even possible, but you get the idea) during the course of 2 patches because they will be made irrelevant one patch later. I sincerely hope they will NOT do the same with crafting. "It's not the same", right?

[PotatoWafflez]

How can you be so sure? We all know that it's a huge waste of time to gear all your DOW/DOM to BiS or even max iLvl (actually it's not even possible, but you get the idea) during the course of 2 patches because they will be made irrelevant one patch later. I sincerely hope they will NOT do the same with crafting. "It's not the same", right?

At best they will let you "upgrade" your sets at a slightly reduced amount of scripts but I am leaning more towards they will just move red scripts to where blue scripts are and then add green scripts or something with 8 new sets and mats and the whole cycles starts over again only this time its worse because all the top tier crafters know its coming and are 100% ready for it.

If they want to put us behind the same "tome" system I sure as hell don't see them changing the format to not having the "tomes" progress every major patch and new gear added with it.