Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

[Tatsuya227]

Waste someone else's time.

OMG Tetsu why!? Be nice now! D:

[Kaedan]

Then go to Party finder if you don't want to deal with it. Again, people learn differently. Or, take the 5 minutes, and do a very quick brief rundown. It seriously does not take that long to break down a fight's mechanics into a quick synopsis.

This is what you're not getting. The people who go in blind, at this point, are the minority. They are the one inconveniencing the majority. When it comes to courtesy, it always goes in favor of inconveniencing the least amount of people. In this case, wiping because someone didn't bother telling everyone it was their first time, or having to explain to them when they could have looked it up on their own is them inconveniencing the majority. That is not courtesy, that is rudeness, the exact opposite.

There's a reason the Party Finder has a "learning party" option.

Even when I was a Dark Knight in FFXI I bit a bullet repeatedly and ate an exp loss to help others in my party. Consider it a part of who I am. As I said...Common Courtesy and kindness to your fellow human being.

Try it sometime. You might find it can go a long way.

You don't even bother to read, do you? I have no problem explaining things to people and helping new players, as I've already said in this thread. In FFXI, I actually was someone who would provoke a mis-pull and tell others to run, eating the XP loss for the group, or do a death pull to get players through Arrapago or Caedarva. As for your insulting attitude, I find it hard to believe you have any courtesy in you at all. I bet in FFXI, you were actually one of those who would mob train other people to claim NMs/HNMs.

In any case, most of us who perceive at least gaining cursory knowledge of an instance before entering (unless it's brand new content) as common courtesy are still more than willing to help others... so stop trying to demonize us.

[Dracosavarian]

Snip

I'm only going to give you a very basic response, at best. Make of that what you will.


The examples I typed up were listed there as roughs. Note, in each example, the Comment was Basic Rundown:

I don't know how much more basic you can get, considering I wrote those up in this forum just for the idea of a very basic example. And don't get me wrong...that is a very rough example. In Ravana fights for example I go into much more detail, depending on what the party involved says. I try and be considerate of how much length people are willing to put up with.


That having been said. To wit, my opinion will not change. If an individual like me comes in who has watched a vid, doesn't remember everything, is told nothing even though I ask (Remember, Kinesthetic Learner) and a wipe is caused...that is most assuredly not my fault. An accident? Maybe, depends on the situation.

But the fault there lies on the group.

Again. Duty Finder. You are going to get people who say they are new and need advice on mechanics, or say they watched a vid but need touch ups or pointers or a refresh.

Don't want to waste time? Use Party Finder, form a party, and handle it that way.

Expecting your views and your ideals to be forced upon everyone, no matter how well intentioned, is the absolute height of arrogance.

People have free will for a reason.

Take care and be well.

[Orbiaus]

You should have watched a vid. I went in blind when it first came out and learned the hard way because nobody knew what to do. When a vid was available I watched it. I noticed a few tips too which I didn't know. If you want to go in blind go for it but don't expect other players to hold your hand either.

I'd also say the OP shouldn't have been kicked and the explanation was terrible. Though sometimes people do get fed up with explaining every run. Though the fault is also on them for not making a farm group.

[Eidolon]

Snip

Your arguement hinged on the idea that "It doesn't take long to explain the fight to new players"... and then you wrote something that was so basic that it would likely just lead to more confusion than anything else. Ultimately, the point of your post was "It doesn't take that long!" before it became "But its' basic and quick." - when in reality, you need to go into MUCH more detail for it to be even the LEAST bit wortwhile.


A complex encounter requires a concise explanation. A simple encounter can be a quick and rough explanation.

However, I will take pause. Your arguement has now changed from "not watching anything and being told" to "Watching a video and being told." which is what a lot of us were talkign about. I don't think anyone has issue with someone who watched a video and asks for any extra advice, because we can also have a reasonable conversation with a rough understand.

No one is going to blame you if you wipe as you learn. No one is going to be mad at you for what. What we were frustrated with, was the example you gave of the people who (Very often) enter into a dungoun/raid without EVER Looking at anything, and expect things to be HANDED OVER.

You keep trying to use Party Finder as an end-all be all, but let's be fair - if you want to go in blind, you can likewise use a party finder.

If someone chooses to kick you for not knowing what to do / being new? Sorry - that's the will of the majority, and it happens.

Expecting everyone to accept you and bend over backwards to accomodate everything about you, is the absolute pinnacle of a self-entitled arrogant party member that will ultimately prove to be more of a detriment than a benefit. It shows how lazy they are and how little they care for their comrades. All they care about is themselves, and attempting to thrust their ideals on 7 others is unrealistic.

People have free will for a reason.

[ThanMazus]

All they care about is themselves, and attempting to thrust their ideals on 7 others is unrealistic.

Said each side about the other.

[Kaedan]

Said each side about the other.

I think you might have to rethink your math:

8 people in a party. 1 person goes in completely blind and doesn't even ask any questions. That person is now inconveniencing 7 other people.

8 people in a party. 1 person goes in completely blind, wipes the group and still doesn't say anything. They are kicked. 1 person is now inconvenienced.

Except for maybe the first week of new content, you're almost never going to have a group with more than 1 or 2 players doing it for the first time. So no, it doesn't "go both ways".

[SakuraMidori]

snip

Then i guess we can agree this new age of thinking is damn sad lol i find it sicking that random ppl can't work together. Because at the end of that tunnel is something we all want yes? gear tomes and whatever let me put it this way this-----)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_Evil_Outbreak was a game that had nothing but team work and made random ppl work together to beat the odds and get out alive you never new who you end up with 80% of the time and there was no way to talk or chat {only emotes} and if you made a mistake. It was game over you died and turn into a zombie then get booted from the room and your party has one less member to help them in short team work was your only way to beat the game and move on and my point i bet ppl now a days can't play a game like this because helping ppl is to hard

[ThanMazus]

I think you might have to rethink your math:

8 people in a party. 1 person goes in completely blind and doesn't even ask any questions. That person is now inconveniencing 7 other people.

8 people in a party. 1 person goes in completely blind, wipes the group and still doesn't say anything. They are kicked. 1 person is now inconvenienced.

Except for maybe the first week of new content, you're almost never going to have a group with more than 1 or 2 players doing it for the first time. So no, it doesn't "go both ways".

I think you might have to rethink how many words you put in my mouth.

Every time a new fight comes out, this discussion comes up. The new people say "If you want an expert clear with no difficulties, use the PF", and the veterans say "if you want someone to explain the fight to you, use the PF".

"Watch a video before using the DF" vs "Why can't we ever just try things for ourselves?"

[Reynhart]

If you want to do blind do it with a PF group you set up or do it in the first few days it's out.

Actually, it's the other way round...if you go in Duty Finder, you have to accept every random player it gives you. That's the basic of "random groups".

If you want something specific, create your group with your expectation.