War MT?

[rawker]

Except most healers, at least on the forums, are sick of deliverance war tanks. It might be because most of them are bad, but I'm 100% sure that healers do have a hard time healing str WAR.

umm... basically every tank out of their tank stance pulling large mobs.

[Ryahask]

PLD :
- Worst DPS out of the 3 tanks classes. Now better than what it used to be, but still.
- Less mitigation than DRK, and WAR have Inner Beast which is the best defensive skill in this game since 2.1.
- Most ppl say it's the "best" tank against physical damage. It's simply wrong. Block/Parry is RNG, thus not reliable, and Halone combo is too weak.
- Doesn't increase DPS for other party members (WAR increase Tanks and NIN's DPS).
- Has the weakest damage debuff (-5% STR).
- Run out of TP in most fights. WAR now have TP restore and damaging GCD that doesn't cost TP, and yeah this is bullshit. DRK also have huge issues with TP, but will never be as useless as any other classes out of PT since it can maintain ~70% of its DPS with MP only, and your overall DPS will only decrease by ~12% if you're fighting for 8min straight without jump phase or any help for your TP.
Since 2.1, you can clear every endgame content (savage included) with 2 WAR that aren't even max VIT.

And healers that have trouble healing tanks are simply bad. Tanks can survive to any tank buster with only 1 CD if healers do their job properly (really it's almost all about the SCH).

1. Yes, they are the worst DPS tank. It's deliberate.
2. No, PLD doesn't have less mitigation than WAR or DRK. They have more and better defensive CDs as well as better passive (Though unreliable) mitigation.
3. It is the best against physical, and magical too. Block is reliable as a PLD due to Shelltron and Bulwark.
4. Yes, PLD doesn't have all of the utility other tanks have, it would be dumb if they did.
5. Rage of Halone is a 10% reduction. WAR damage reduction is better, but DRK certainly isn't against physical damage.
6. PLD has quite good TP sustain as MT, they need help as OT admittedly. DRK has trouble with both TP and MP. Even WAR has trouble with TP if content doesn't afford them the opportunity to swap to Deliverance, most does, but in more challenging content as a MT it's not likely.

You've also neglected to mention the numerous strengths of PLD. You've basically chosen only to criticize their weakest points in an attempt to support your argument. PLD has the absolute best utility of the tanks, the best mitigation, offers the most substantial safety net for mistakes (Which are realistically always a concern, even among the absolute best players), and offers the potential to nullify mechanics in numerous fights due to their demonstrable defense and their useful tank ultimate (Whereas the other two tank ultimate skills are disgustingly worthless).

[Khalithar]

I really don't think it matters which tank you use in the current hardest content (Alexander) except maybe in A4.

A1- Both tanks can take either Oppressor and don't tank the adds anyway. Though for the mini-boss I'd rather have a War or Drk tanking it just to speed it up a little more.

A2- The only adds that are remotely dangerous are the Jagd dolls and if your dps on the tank is doing their job and the healers are still awake by that point, you're fine.

A3- I started doing the strat where you have the whole raid soak the cleave together, then the only dangerous thing is the boss auto attack in that phase which is easy enough to deal with since the cleave damage becomes negligible. In the last phase, so long as your tanks are swapping correctly on their stacks it's also fine.

A4- Now here, I much prefer to have the warrior or drk MT here while I OT, mostly because I've played with both that have been able to use their cooldowns to eat every Perpetual Ray without the need for a tank swap. That in turn freed me up as a Pld to cast my heal and stoneskin on the tanks and the healers while soaking orbs myself.

[Starkbeaumont]

stuff

2. More? yes. Better? not really. in raid content where CDs usually matter for those tank busters, they are almost in the same boat, with WAR being the clear winner having access to inner beast around every 20s.
3. for magic damage they have 2 CDs. 2! rampart and sentinel. unless you also count divine veil, but this requires you to get a heal before it means anything and it's probably better to be saved for a raid wide move and not those tank busters. well if the mob needs more than 3s to cast you could count stoneskin maybe
5. it's 10% less str of the mob, not damage. an attack could have a base potency of 10k while the mob only has 50 str. your 10% less str won't matter at all in this case. the attack will still hurt. Only reason drk falls short in this category is cause int down can also be provided by a mnk
6. all tanks have the same tp requirement on their combos. but inner beast doesn't need tp and war has the option to get 200 tp back every minute, so they are the clear winner here. and drk has access to some magic, while your dps will fall it can still give some time to recover tp. pld though has nothing like this. especially if you have to pick up something on top of what you tank with shield lob, they are the worst when it comes to tp.

[ZhycranaDranix]

Point is Taint you stated that PLDs are behind in Alexander which we aren't period ?
WAY behind is too excessive in this case, and I did average for me. I don't pop food as a PLD in raids I know its not needed nore do I throw up POTs, but if you can maintain 700+ DPS w/o food/pots as a PLD then I'm playing my job wrong and I'll reconsider my rotation. Oh and noted this is without coming out of Shield Oath , are these OT #s because starting with 20% of your damage gone I can only imagine you being out of Shield Oath your PLD pulling close to 850ish DPS then ?
No sarcasm I truly applaud you and all PLDs out there pumping 700 dps in Shield Oath if Im wrong
But anyways

I like the other 2 tanks , and what they bring to the table ,but in Alex The SO CALLED Heavy Magic Damage I've yet to see...given that our three biggest CDs can wipe the floor with any Current Magical Attack IN the game considering that they don't only block Physical but Magical as well ?

Look at our CDs

Rampart - All Damage
Sentinel - All damage
Hallowed Ground - All damage

Hasn't been an encounter yet to where I can't weave these three in and not having to worry about dying. You guys are taking this ''Magic Damage'' too far ,
Last Phase Of Alex A4 is the only Magic Damage heavy phase in Alex which can easily be handled by PLDs
STR Debuff alr applied to target at pretty much a 100% up keep, which are pretty much all cleaves and frontal swipes/autoattacks reduced

Cross Class- WARs phsycial CD

[Perzeval]

No sarcasm I truly applaud you and all PLDs out there pumping 700 dps in Shield Oath if Im wrong

But why do you even tank Alexander in Shield oath? Except for MT role in A4 there is little reason to do so, even when pugging. :/

[SirTaint]

I'm always MT and probably always will be. I do however play all 3 tank jobs.

I stance dance like every tank should, plan out CD rotations for each fight and map out DPS.

This brings up one of PLDs biggest flaws. Halone. Our lowest DPS combo is also our hate combo. While WARs don't care which stance they are in for their rotation, PLD has to sacrifice DPS for hate. A huge oversight on SEs part. An OT PLD has zero chance of pulling hate but an OT WAR does. DRK isn't as bad either way.

I look forward to savage, I'll be forced to play PLD for a bit until the fights are picked apart but that is my statics preference even though it's not ideal.

[ZhycranaDranix]

But why do you even tank Alexander in Shield oath? Except for MT role in A4 there is little reason to do so, even when pugging. :/

A1 I sheild oath until the split after that I'm out ..... which is why my dps scraps around 581ish im sure if I sword oath right after gaining agro itll be upwards of 700 but I choose not to

A2 Jag Dolls hit hard , even in shield oath , I hate all these unrealistic tanks , if I can mitigate damage for healers Im going to do it and agro hold is important here so yes Shield oath is a must and if youre the true main tank here you're holding multiple enemies at time.

A3 After gaining agro , I switch to sword oath , occasionally switching in out through out the add phase

A4 Gain agro on the leg , and sword oath , P4 shield oath

[Perzeval]

A1 Why do you choose to stay in Shield oath after gaining aggro? The opressor hits like a wet noodle and there is zero pressure on healers even if both tanks go DPS stance.

A2 understandable if pugging and DPS are bad at burning the dolls down. But then again, dolls appear only 4 times out of 8 waves, with one double doll final wave that can be dealt with your Limit break. Actually you should let your WAR buddy tank those using Unchained to reduce DPS loss. A2 is the worst level for bringing a Paladin as a "MT" because their only effective aoe enmity skill is Flash.

A3 You can start with sword oath and keep doing Halone combo till you have enough aggro lead, no reason to start with shield oath. The hand damage is shared with your group / OT anyway.

A4 same as A3

Of course you won't be able to stay ahead with sword oath if you are full VIT.

[Kleys]

if I can mitigate damage for healers Im going to do it

Healer being the easiest job to play in FFXIV, I really don't get why random tanks are still babysitting their healers.

Stop it already.