Dark Knight : Just another mitigation tank

[SarcasmMisser]

Having a phat HP container with 1 self-healing skill that you can pop roughly every 15-20 secs is not a blood tank.

I also played WAR for coil 1-5 pre-2.1 and while it was a weaker alternative to PLD, our group still managed to clear.

The Binds that Tie I
11/01/2014

Whoops. Completely ignoring that T5 had the only major tank busters and you were probably OT.

[Altena]

Self-healing tanks are a horrible idea, the tank's side of the damage management equation is mitigation and self-healing is just doing the healer's job for them poorly. How are self-heals supposed to stop you dying to a tank buster, all damage tanks take come in two forms and that's damage you are meant to take and damage you are meant to mitigate.

Tank busters can be avoided simply with a similar mechanic to what I listed on numerous occasions - provide a adlo-style shield proportionate to damage dealt over and above your HP container. (ie, mitigating a portion of the attack with this shield that was based on a lifestyle style mechanic to the job).

That is one example. In addition to that, there is nothing suggesting that a blood tank should have 0 mitigation skills, but simply carbon copying direct skills from PLD onto another class is just pure lazy and uninteresting.

[Malevicton]

snippity

One of your examples isn't a tank, as you yourself said, and the other is from an RTS (well not technically an RTS, but much closer to that than an mmo, and besides that it's pvp mechanics anyways).

Lifesteal and evasion tanks are a nightmare to balance. They can be fun, I'm not gonna say you're "wrong" to want one, but it's very understandable why devs avoid them. They're not as standard as you're making them sound.

[Altena]

Whoops. Completely ignoring that T5 had the only major tank busters and you were probably OT.

Welllllll we actually solo tanked T5. So there goes that.
T1-4 was perfectly doable with a WAR.

[Asierid]

Blood DK is also a mitigation tank that happens to heal. Just because DS heals or it runs on runes doesn't automatically make the tank something special. There are passive that allow for mitigation more than there are heals.

Anything that uses leeches/heals to sustain themselves with no sort of mitigation is just asking for failure. WAR 2.0 is an example of this.

[Draciella]

All this bllod tank talk and all i can think about is fire tanking in DCUO. Such an awful game but strangely addictive. A proper self healing tank with high health id say would need every hit to be a heal and the user picks the strength at a cost. Also the hp pool should flex with these scaling heals. Big hit incoming, add 60% to your hp bar, self heal 10% hp and have that on cooldown. Smaller cd's with a different balance of stackable/nonstackable self heals and hp pool would be awesome. And the hallowed equal, a cd that heals you 2000hp a second for 12 seconds Still has the risk to be killed but carries a reward of helping the healers. I cant think of anything in game being done properly this would not work. I havent cranked any numbers this is all off the top of my head

[SarcasmMisser]

Welllllll we actually solo tanked T5. So there goes that.
T1-4 was perfectly doable with a WAR.

In 2.1? You just made a claim that you did 1-5 in 2.0 as a war and were caught flat out lying. 1-4 was doable because there were no tank busters, and 1-5 would be doable by virtue that the war was a OT and did little actual tanking. I took a war for 1-4 and it was doable but clearly a handicap. Yes you can solo tank T5 as a war once they implemented those fixes that ditched the idea of a life steal tank.

[Altena]

Lifesteal and evasion tanks are a nightmare to balance. They can be fun, I'm not gonna say you're "wrong" to want one, but it's very understandable why devs avoid them. They're not as standard as you're making them sound.

It's not that I specifically want a lifesteal tank, I just want a tank that isn't so carbon copy to what we've already got. The new classes are just not impressive mechanically.

Look at MCH. It's so stupidly similar to BRD (sure the rotation is different but the overall mechanics and role are very similar).
Astro basically has a combination of some gimp WHM / SCH skills with a "random buff" mechanic tacked on.

[Altena]

so much salt

Eh I couldn't remember if it was before or after, I knew it was close to the patch. Makes little difference. You are completely brushing over the fact that I have agreed countless times that they "tried" blood tanking with WAR, yes - but they didn't do it well. IB was literally its only significant lifesteal skill on a single target - and there was no overflow mechanic or anything that provided some buffer. If they were to simply increase your max HP proportionate to IB's overheal for a short duration, it would work fine against tank busters. The issue was that there just wasn't enough lifesteal to make it their primary source of tanking ability, and at the time Defiance didn't offer a passive healing buff.

Blood tanking can easily be done. WAR was just an extremely poor example of it.

[Malevicton]

It's not that I specifically want a lifesteal tank, I just want a tank that isn't so carbon copy to what we've already got.

So not a self-heal tank, not an evasion tank, and not a mitigation tank. But you don't have any ideas for what it should be, just that it shouldn't be those other things, which are basically the only way tanks have ever been implemented without being broken - even though even 2 of those 3 types are generally pretty broken.

So basically the creative standard should've been to revolutionize tanking and anything less is unimpressive.