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  1. #81
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Delorean View Post
    well it's not like dragoons only spent an entire expansion of dying just because they had lower magic defense than everyone else while being the most frustrating DPS class to play

    oh wait, they did

    i mean some of them are still dying and winning rolls on loot just because they are bad and unreasonably lucky, but that is beside the point
    Hey...at least you got into the content and died in there. People won't even take MCH or even BRDs in Bis EX nowadays.
    (6)
    ____________________

  2. #82
    Player
    Sessurea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,242
    Character
    Lanfear Sessurea
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillia View Post
    Right now, if Savage was out and you had a bard/machinist in your static but couldn't reach the DPS check with them even if they did their rotation good and knew when to give support would you keep them?
    except that every single raid encounter in this game is created with bard dps ability in mind. if you're geared enough, and have a brd and 3 other dps and still can't beat a dps check then someone needs to get gud, plain and simple. Running content without a bard would probably reduce melee dps to bard level. As an example, raid enrage timers are generally 10 mins? Nins are out of tp in under 4 mins with invigorate still very much on cd. Now is it really worth bringing another dps who wont offer support and will probably end up doing bard damage due to tp starvation? Sure the nin can goad the tank ( wow ) but he will starve himself.

    Don't forget tanks run out of tp fast too ( pld runs out in under 3 mins ) and tanks damage has been buffed to support dps level, so tank tp starvation is an even further value to bard, more so than before.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sessurea; 07-06-2015 at 01:34 AM.

  3. 07-06-2015 01:43 AM
    Reason
    Clarity

  4. #83
    Player
    Lillia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    672
    Character
    Lillia Hope
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sessurea View Post
    snip
    You know... I always considered and was fine with Bard being utility, a nice middle between it all if you will.... but what you just explained was nothing more than a TP/MP bottle with legs that's not even taken along for both the support and small bits of DPS it can push out which is sort of disappointing as.... I never really saw the job that way. Anyways, maybe I just didn't know the job as well as you do and should start reconsidering if it's something I want to really play as.

    And to further explain before you say anything, I actually did feel like bard was able to do not the highest but decent numbers that wasn't behind or with a tank of all jobs unless of course the tank was an OT or the bard was just really bad.... :/
    (1)
    Last edited by Lillia; 07-06-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  5. #84
    Player
    Ulyssess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    12
    Character
    Omega Nillefrant
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Honestly, I think people are getting a little bit too attached if they're getting offended over something as light as 'Ew Bard'. I mean, I could understand if it was something more substantially and to the extent you were being excluded from things because of your job.
    But that is happening... I've been kicked multiple times from runs that never even left the gate, just because they see my class listed as Bard. Literally nothing I can do, I can't even prove my worth to the party, since I'm kicked before anything even happens. I've counted 9 times I've been kicked from a 3.0 dungeon in the last 24 hours.

    Just seems ignorant (for lack of a better word) to be making a statement, pretending this problem doesn't exist...
    (3)

  6. #85
    Player
    Sessurea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,242
    Character
    Lanfear Sessurea
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillia View Post
    Anyways, maybe I just didn't know the job as well as you do and should start reconsidering if it's something I want to really play as.
    nah u probably know it fine. Bard was a class where u could pull really great dps before, and you could consider yourself a "dps" and not just a "support dps" at times. I felt it was a nice balance and every brd was pretty happy then.

    In those times a 3 min dummy parse was 500 dps for brd and somewhere in the low 600s for melee. Nowadays brd is like 800 at dummy while mellee is now 1100. It's as if se feel the significantly raised skill caps on other dps classes ( particularly blm and drg ) is going to make this difference in dps a lot smaller in a real fight. And for the most cases, the gap in a real fight IS a lot smaller. bard can be within 100 dps of other classes in real fights and usually is if everyone is playing good. But if other dps classes manage to reach near peak dps from optimisation of the fight then brd really will be relegated to support utterly and completely. I guess all this is to say theres less fun and e peen to brd now which is a shame. I honestly wish things would remain as they were and I guess I'm just trying to get used to the idea that I'm a support now. And support is only ever needed in raids which we don't have yet.

    bard as it is would have been awesome if it was like this originally, but people picked bards for damage and got the support as a bonus. Now se are saying : Now you are mainly just a support. What I don't like is how hard bards have to try for their dps which now wont ever be notable or special. Good bard play should imo reward one with dps at least greater than what the OT can pull.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sessurea; 07-06-2015 at 02:14 AM.

  7. #86
    Player
    Lillia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    672
    Character
    Lillia Hope
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sessurea View Post
    I guess all this is to say theres less fun and e peen to brd now which is a shame. I honestly wish things would remain as they were and I guess I'm just trying to get used to the idea that I'm a support now. And support is only ever needed in raids which we don't have yet.


    Yeah.. That's hitting me now too... because like I said before I always felt we were utility.. not just one side or the other. >.<
    (0)
    Last edited by Lillia; 07-06-2015 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #87
    Player
    Lux_Rayna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    911
    Character
    Vynce Walker
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 50
    OP ppl take the game too seriously. Thats all. I dont think it was a big deal myself, and baffled at the negative reaction in the thread. Its just a game at the end of the day, the joke in no way made a personal attack on the player, and merely poked fun at his job.

    Theae same ppl throwing tantrums made fun of drgs for years. Now its suddenly not okay to poke fun at a job?
    (0)

  9. #88
    Player
    LambLich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    24
    Character
    Lambard Frostwyght
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    I'd love to know where this whole "Support DPS" idea comes from and why people keep perpetuating it. It doesn't exist its construct people use to justify what is a blatantly stupid discrepancy in DPS numbers.
    (3)

  10. #89
    Player
    Lillia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    672
    Character
    Lillia Hope
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna View Post
    OP ppl take the game too seriously. Thats all. I dont think it was a big deal myself, and baffled at the negative reaction in the thread. Its just a game at the end of the day, the joke in no way made a personal attack on the player, and merely poked fun at his job.

    These same ppl throwing tantrums made fun of drgs for years. Now its suddenly not okay to poke fun at a job?
    Actually, I for one have never told a DRG.. "Ew, DRG" upon seeing them in a Dgn or getting one. Sure I'd join a joke of lawlgoon but I never toss it out there nor start that joke. Most the time it was the Dragoon to start the joke on themselves with the whole "I died again" stuff.

    I like DRGs, they burst out good dps and help bards and I enjoyed playing one for however short-lived it was when I was doing so for B4B. Though... it wasn't even the fact that he was joking about the job but rather the comment he chose to joke with.

    Quote Originally Posted by LambLich View Post
    I'd love to know where this whole "Support DPS" idea comes from and why people keep perpetuating it. It doesn't exist its construct people use to justify what is a blatantly stupid discrepancy in DPS numbers.
    We are DPS/Support, when people need TP or MP who do you think fills it? Us. When a caster needs that small boost then who do you think sings to tug them up in numbers a little more? Us.

    Yes, by that term any job can be 'support' however we have more supportive abilities than they do with normally a longer span than they do. If we were just pure DPS then we wouldn't be stopping to sing and fill these needs as part of our 'role', We'd have less supportive abilities and higher DPS.

    As a matter of fact we would fit the role of Ranger much more if it came to that and much less a Bard whose almost always been seen as a more supportive role than DPS in the FF series.

    And when I say "us" or "our" I do include you when you're on the job unless you leave healers and dps high and dry.
    (1)
    Last edited by Lillia; 07-06-2015 at 03:35 AM.

  11. #90
    Player
    Sessurea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,242
    Character
    Lanfear Sessurea
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by LambLich View Post
    I'd love to know where this whole "Support DPS" idea comes from and why people keep perpetuating it. It doesn't exist its construct people use to justify what is a blatantly stupid discrepancy in DPS numbers.
    Hi paladin. Notice how u run out of tp after about 2 minutes and 50 seconds.....yeah.
    (2)

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