Dev, please confirm MCH buffs before Alexander release?

[Kaedan]

Not even close, and MCH is a much harder class to play so it should be outputting more dps then bard.

What? No.

Just because a class is more complex does not mean it should do more DPS than the other DPS classes. They should all be roughly equal... which they are, at least at 60 (perhaps slightly underpowered compared to BRD, but not as horribly as people are claiming).

[Wavaryen]

What? No.

Just because a class is more complex does not mean it should do more DPS than the other DPS classes. They should all be roughly equal... which they are, at least at 60 (perhaps slightly underpowered compared to BRD, but not as horribly as people are claiming).

Ya when I said the same thing, people seem to not like it.

[LittleArrow]

perhaps slightly underpowered compared to BRD, but not as horribly as people are claiming.

Yes it is as bad people are saying - and it's not just saying, it is.

There are multiple reddit threads with DPS recorded numbers, countless personal experiences, and further proof in game. If you doubt what I'm saying, check the thread I made with several sited sources:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ious-attention

Or here's a thread with comments discussing how DRGs, MNKs, and SMNs are consistently staying at 1100-1200, and one even drgs are now being recorded at 1300-1400 dps, while MCHs and BRDs are both at around 850-900 dps despite item level, on par with Warrior tanks

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/relate...t_dps_testing/

Or, how about watch the video in that thread to show exactly how bad it is. Can we trust recorded parsers? Personally I don't, that's why I look at the numbers in game. MCH potencies are 140 - 180 (with 50% proc) - 200 (with 50% proc). I believe there's a passive that increases these potencies later on, but that is still reliant on a 50% proc that's given to us a 100% chance every 60secs and 30secs. Sounds great? BLMs have a 200+ and 300+ protency they can just spam. PLDs have a 100% guaranteed combo with a 300+ potency move (yes, their gear is different, but this is the lowest bar to give a comparison). There is a problem with MCH if you just look at the in game numbers.

I checked your lodestone, b/c I was curious what your MCH lvl is. It is lvl 30. Unless you have an alt or have played MCH on another player's account to see how it is, you're defending an issue you don't truly understand. Please correct me here if I'm wrong. If you have a MCH at higher levels and you're not seeing these problems, list what your 'rotation' is. Tell us how you're playing it.

Your defense is only making the problem worse for other people. I apologize for picking on you specifically, but there are others doing exactly what you're doing. Players are coming here, haven't played the class or thoroughly played with the class, and trying to say we're wrong or it's not as bad.

It is as bad as we're saying it.

Also, that logic of harder shouldn't equal more reward makes no sense to me personally. Is a difficult class subjective? Sure. Is weaving combos compared to hitting a few buttons more complicated? Yes. If they both were the -exact- same dps, would there be any incentive to play the other class? Maybe for some, but logically no. We're not asking for our class to do 2000 dps, we're asking to be on par. I accepted BRD's low dps during 2.0 b/c that class was the easiest class to play - NOT b/c of this fabled "support" class that the devs refuses to acknowledge its existence (NIN - gives TP, SMN - Virus and battle res, MNK / WAR / DRG - lowers attack on the target... yet they don't have their damage blasted like BRD and MCH. The movement argument makes no sense either, but I've gone over that argument way too many times now).

So in short, yes it is that bad. Playing a complicated class should provide rewards over playing an easy class. Yes, we should be balanced with difficulty in mind, but to make sure that classes feel rewarding to play - no one is asking to do an insane amount of more damage, we're asking to be ON PAR WITH.

[Zyrusticae]

While I only have a 38 mch and a 44 brd (or something close to that) I know I can't contribute much, if any input, but this is my two cents. While on one hand I do agree that mch needs a bit of a buff, but more along the lines of higher chance to proc the bonus dmg to their combo or potentially make it a 1,2,3 combo. But at the same time I kind of like the "damn no proc yet", I dunno, I'm weird lol. On the other hand, I do also sort of see why their dmg is lower than the other jobs due to the fact that they are the only "true support" types in the game. So perhaps in order to make them on par with the others they would have to lose their support or nerf the support. As they say, can't have your cake and eat it too. But that's just me.

Well, first of all, neither BRD nor MCH have enough support abilities to qualify as "true support", hence the "support DPS" moniker that gets thrown around.

Secondly, reducing MCH's already weak support is an absolutely hilarious suggestion given there's hardly any place you could nerf it without just making it straight-up pointless.

Mediocre support and mediocre DPS sure makes for one lame combination.

Well I finally managed to get through Bismarck EX (and I did just fine on DPS), but I get to Ravana only to find so called 'practice' groups pulling this:



This is the new normal and why if MCH is going to get adjustments, it needs them fast.

The unmarked DPS, for reference, is another DRG.


Here's another one not much long after, to show this isn't a fluke. I think I'm just going to catalog instances of this happening within this thread from now on, because it's pretty conclusive proof there is a devleoping wariness in the community about MCH:

Quoting for new page and AW HELL NAW! I just hit level 60 and then I see this... Ugh, so godsdamned depressing. Twelve preserve us!

[Kaedan]

So in short, yes it is that bad. Playing a complicated class should provide rewards over playing an easy class. Yes, we should be balanced with difficulty in mind, but to make sure that classes feel rewarding to play - no one is asking to do an insane amount of more damage, we're asking to be ON PAR WITH.

Actually, some people are saying MCH should do more because it's "harder".

As for the numbers, I'll trust them when everyone's wearing the same equipment and is of the same competence level of their class. Neither of those things are true at the moment. Sure, a parser could result in low numbers, but how was the MCH gear compared to the other DPS? Were they doing their job the best possible way with optimal rotations? Cause existing DPS have had years to perfect rotations... MCH has had a whopping week.

EDIT: I'm not denying they are probably underpowered. DRK is too, atm. It's better to start a new class underpowered and buff than to start overpowered and nerf. But it isn't nearly as bad as people are screaming doom and gloom about.

[SuzakuCMX]

Why would you take a BRD and not a MCH? They offer about the same support and almost identical DPS, except GB is a lot less clunky to play with than WM because of Rapid Fire.

EDIT: As for "DRG parsing 1200 and MCH 900"

DRG parses 1200 at 4 minutes; MCH parses 900 at 3 minutes. DRG needs TP Regen after 4 minutes in order to keep up their high DPS, meaning without a BRD/MCH in the party your DPS is going to drop significantly after 4 minutes. Therefore all DRG DPS after 4 minutes has to be attributed to the BRD/MCH.

[Pluvia]

Well, first of all, neither BRD nor MCH have enough support abilities to qualify as "true support", hence the "support DPS" moniker that gets thrown around.

Secondly, reducing MCH's already weak support is an absolutely hilarious suggestion given there's hardly any place you could nerf it without just making it straight-up pointless.

Mediocre support and mediocre DPS sure makes for one lame combination.


Quoting for new page and AW HELL NAW! I just hit level 60 and then I see this... Ugh, so godsdamned depressing. Twelve preserve us!

Really those groups are at a loss since you know machinist right now has a higher damage cap from what i've seen of people parsing and doesn't have the crippling blood letter bug that can happen

[MrSmiley]

What? No.

Just because a class is more complex does not mean it should do more DPS than the other DPS classes. They should all be roughly equal... which they are, at least at 60 (perhaps slightly underpowered compared to BRD, but not as horribly as people are claiming).

They are below off tanks, who are obviously below normal dps. That is horrible. mch and brd got gauss/wm to increase damage while staying still however these skills are a dps loss which also means that the new (for bard) skills they receive for them post 50 see almost no use because their mode is useless.

That's right, these classes got three useless skills between 50-60 that is VERY BAD. mch gauss sees a little more use than wm only because of a bug that they are using to increase their dps roughly 8%...and still fall short of even brd.

These classes need help sooner than later, their turret mode stances should not be a dps loss, that's just ridiculous.

[Fenral]

Are any of the numbers thrown around from real combat, or do people still honestly think that a dummy-parse is indicative of actual combat performance? Melee DPS and casters lose a lot of their dummy number when dealing with these things called raid mechanics, while Bards, historically, do not. Machinist, as a new alternative to Bard, was balanced with that in mind. If you're between 800-900 DPS during an actual encounter, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Hayward]

Well I finally managed to get through Bismarck EX (and I did just fine on DPS), but I get to Ravana only to find so called 'practice' groups pulling this:



This is the new normal and why if MCH is going to get adjustments, it needs them fast.

The unmarked DPS, for reference, is another DRG.


Here's another one not much long after, to show this isn't a fluke. I think I'm just going to catalog instances of this happening within this thread from now on, because it's pretty conclusive proof there is a devleoping wariness in the community about MCH:

This nonsense is why parsers need to remain illegal and why that feature needs to be taken out of PF. We've gone through enough of this job discrimination in FFXI. We don't need it here.