MCH completely useless

[Ramath]

Also I want to say that the "you're a buffer/debuffer you shouldn't be doing the same dmg as -insert dps here-" is an excuse with no merit.

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

I'm still at a loss as to why BRD and MCN are being accepted as lowest dps in a party composition. BRD and MCN still take up a DPS slot. Shouldn't they be expected to pull their share of the DPS responsibility?

"BRD and MCN can buff the other DPS in the party."
-Well, sure, but doesn't DRG and WAR do the same thing? BRD gets a penalty for buffing others by lowering their own. MCN can only do it for 15 sec out of 90. DRG keeps theirs up 100% (ideally.) MNK can boost healing effectiveness for the party. NIN can boost damage for the party for a time, as well with Trick Attack.

"BRD and MCN can always attack and don't have to stop moving."
-Neither does my DRG... Yes, I know I'm limited to melee range, but having cleared T1-13 on my DRG, having to stay out of range during times when the boss was still targetable and attackable was EXTREMELY rare. With two different gap-closeres, my DRG never stopped hitting. Besides, my SMN is able to keep up an extremely high percentage of its damage while on the move, as well. Not to mention the fact that, guess what, BRD and MCN have to stop moving now, too, for WM and GB.

"MCN has so many other abilities to affect the fight."
-In theory, but not in practical application. Almost every boss in the game is immune to stun, silence, knockback, heavy, and bind. That's five of our abilities we can't use in a boss fight, and almost all of our utility. Sure, we get a defensive cooldown that nerfs the boss, but so does SMN...

"BRD and MCH can give tp/mp to other classes."
-So can NIN. On top of that, I was always expected to manage my own TP as DRG and MP as SMN. Yes, our BRD was there to sing for our healers, but since when does that increase our DPS? The times when our BRD played a TP song to help regen the TP of a DPS who died, it never increased my ability to deal damage as my DRG. Having to stop dealing damage to help a party member, sure, that sounds 100% logical. But when I'm not helping my healers, why am I still sitting at the bottom of the list, undisputed?


Yes, BRD and MCN are different from the other DPS, as they should be. I don't expect every job to play the same. I DO expect, however, that every role be able to perform on the same level. All healers should be able to keep their party alive. All tanks should be able to survive getting their face smashed in. All DPS should be able to keep up their share of the required DPS checks.

The days of MMO's being filled with large, open-world bosses with the ranged DPS standing up on a rock to height-mitigate damage, are gone. No longer do the melee have to constantly 'joust' to avoid constant spam of 360-degree AoEs. Why are we still treating ranged DPS like this? Having played both ranged, caster, and melee dps in T1-13, the argument that the backline has to move less is complete garbage. I had to move MORE as a BLM and SMN than I ever did as a DRG.

So, why are we okay with DRG and SMN parsing extremely high, while BRD and MCN parse so much lower?
Outside of giving MP to our beloved healers, why should we be allowed to attend raids?

[Ryaz]

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

Agree with everything you said. We suffer a LOT of penalties for being ranged, as does Bard, but it makes little sense as to why. My ninja does ridiculous damage, constantly keeps a 10% slashing debuff up and once a minutse throw up a 10% vulnerability debuff for 10 seconds. Oh, and I can give a party member TP regen without losing 15-20% of my DPS. Not to mention the new enmity control mechanics. Heck, my ninja is a better support class than my machinist. Top that off with the fact that machinist and bard have the lowest base weapon damage in the game (again, no clue as to why) and you really see just how bad both jobs are right now.

As for the excuse of dodging AoEs making melee tougher-- I have to dodge AoEs all the time in most fights. Heck, just finished Reactor for the first time yesterday and I lost so many casts from Gauss Barrel having to dodge AoEs, I just said screw it and took it off completely. Wasn't worth it.

All in all, machinist has some good, fun stuff, but it's all made weak for absolutely no reason other than "we're a ranged class".

[FantasyForever]

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

People need to go and upvote that original post so it gets more attention.

[Id_Slayer]

I am highly disappointed in MCH as well. I was hoping to at least match bard, or surpass bard in overall DPS. Or, I would be happy having lower DPS if this trade-off meant I had superior, unique utility over bards. 5% magic and physical damage reduction on a shared timer are not enough.

I am disappointed in the fact that:

1.)Wildfire forces cool-down ability grouping, leaving us nearly helpless in keeping DPS up without at least 1 CD or two being used at any given time.

2.)Because some of our dps is out-sourced to the pet robot, our cd stacking such as raging strikes, blood for blood, hawk's eye, none of these effect the pet and thus a flat% of our overall DPs cannot be enhanced because of this. Overcharge does not do enough, often enough, to make up for this.

3.) If i use the Bishop robot to AOE a group of enemies, then I am also using AOE moves, and will want to regen TP. Therefore this move should probably be on the Bishop instead of the rook. The rook is a single-target use, so I'd use it in the middle of an arena of a boss fight, and want the option to turn it into MP regen in those types of fights.(especially since it is long range, it tends to sit back at a distance, where mages would be)

[Ephier]

I am highly disappointed in MCH as well. I was hoping to at least match bard, or surpass bard in overall DPS. Or, I would be happy having lower DPS if this trade-off meant I had superior, unique utility over bards. 5% magic and physical damage reduction on a shared timer are not enough.

I am disappointed in the fact that:

1.)Wildfire forces cool-down ability grouping, leaving us nearly helpless in keeping DPS up without at least 1 CD or two being used at any given time.

2.)Because some of our dps is out-sourced to the pet robot, our cd stacking such as raging strikes, blood for blood, hawk's eye, none of these effect the pet and thus a flat% of our overall DPs cannot be enhanced because of this. Overcharge does not do enough, often enough, to make up for this.

3.) If i use the Bishop robot to AOE a group of enemies, then I am also using AOE moves, and will want to regen TP. Therefore this move should probably be on the Bishop instead of the rook. The rook is a single-target use, so I'd use it in the middle of an arena of a boss fight, and want the option to turn it into MP regen in those types of fights.(especially since it is long range, it tends to sit back at a distance, where mages would be)

1) Its not like the cooldowns don't line up except waiting 10s for b4b.

2) Turrets do quite a bit of DPS, especially with overcharge up boosting the party DPS depending on what type of party comp you are using.

3) No. You can send out a turret and promote it before it even appears. This can all be done within a GCD.

[RiceisNice]

...

1. Except for Reload, Raging Strikes and Hypercharge, cooldowns allign with wildfire. The problem I ahve with it is that defense is calculated twice against it, its the only ability that gets this treatment so far.

2. This I could agree with in different areas. Hypercharge has a 2 minute cooldown and is only the real buff we can give to them. While it does make for a good chunk of our dps, the boost isn't that big compared to ninja (who has a higher value and affects both sources) or bard for magic. Not to mention if you're using bishop to apply magic debuff on a single target, double that up as a potency loss because it deals less than rook on single target.

3. All of this can be done in a single GCD. Although a bishop probably does more DPS than your AoE anyway outside of burst cooldowns.