MCH completely useless

[RiceisNice]

...

And I feel like you're underestimating just how much auto attacks do contribute to our overall dps. If you don't think reddit parsers are "proof" enough when they're straight up numbers, what would you even accept then? If I went out and auto attack a dummy right now, it's hitting for 300s on average. My Split shot hits for 550 on average, 660-680 with GB. Per GCD, thats a damage loss on each split shot.
Gauss would hit a little bit around 930 every 20 seconds, or 8 GCds. That's roughly 116 damage for that GCD spread over 20 seconds. 850 > 776-788

Granted this is just me taking raw numbers from my auto attacks and skilling then breaking it down by GCD, so I'm sure there something fundamentally wrong with looking at damage dealt from that perspective. But this is also my perspective from doing dungeons and bismark EX in general. I do more damage overall by using my GB exclusively for bursting and not keeping it on, nor should I get used to it becase they'll probably fix the rapid fire bug eventually.

[ClaireTagg]

Yep i agree.

[FantasyForever]

They need to figure out what they want Machinist to do/be.
Dismantle and Rend Mind are on a 90s recast and only last 10s with a reduction in targets dmg dealt by 5%. Way too short a duration and way too long a recast.

Hypercharge is a 15s buff on the turret, that adds the debuff to enemies that lasts 10s. . . so 25s total?
If the debuff does last 25s then it is a little better than a Ninja's Trick Attack. If it doesn't last 25s then it's worse than a Ninja's Trick Attack. Which, I'd say it is worse than Ninja's Trick Attack regardless because Hypercharge is either physical or magic, not both. (Trick attack is magic and physical)


Also I want to say that the "you're a buffer/debuffer you shouldn't be doing the same dmg as -insert dps here-" is an excuse with no merit. Other classes have buffs/debuffs that benefit the raid. Dragon Kick, Goad, Ninja's enmity tools, Apocatastasis, smn having raise in battle, eye for an eye, Battle Litany, etc. Pretty much every job brings some kind of raid utility, the only difference is that Bard and Machinist can restore mp and tp to all pt members. That's not enough for us to be lower than other DPS and then be even lower when we have to use our mp/tp restoring skills. . . a 15% reduction in our already subpar dps.

Best case scenario would be to make it so that we do the same dmg as other dps but still get the 15% reduction when we have to restore mp/tp.

Some people will then say, "why would anyone bring anything else if they can put out the same dps." Because Bard and Machinist don't bring the other things I listed above like trick attack, smn battle raise, Battle Litany, DK, etc.

[Underdog2204]

They need to figure out what they want Machinist to do/be.
Our only real debuffs share a timer of 90s and only last 10s with a reduction in targets dmg dealt by 5%. We are not a debuffer.

Agree and to call MCH a debuffer is kinda laughable.

Disembowel alone is a much better debuff than anything MCH offers xD

It seems like MCH should be more focused on damage dealing with some RNG thrown into the mix to make them unique imo. If it is to be a debuffer then such debuffs should be included in ther rotation and possibly have effect based on if they are currently using gauss or not fluid, rather than having what feels like "token" skills here and there.

[FantasyForever]

Appended what I posted. Stupid character limit.

[Unaki]

Appended what I posted. Stupid character limit.

Make the initial post, cut it down to the max then edit and add the rest in. Its how you bypass the limit.

[Ryaz]

The only thing we really have going for us right now is AoE damage. With GB, Rapid Fire, Grenado, Biship and Riochet, we can destroy packs. Too bad that, just like our limit break, it's extremely situational and mostly used for trash pulls.

[Ramath]

Also I want to say that the "you're a buffer/debuffer you shouldn't be doing the same dmg as -insert dps here-" is an excuse with no merit.

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

I'm still at a loss as to why BRD and MCN are being accepted as lowest dps in a party composition. BRD and MCN still take up a DPS slot. Shouldn't they be expected to pull their share of the DPS responsibility?

"BRD and MCN can buff the other DPS in the party."
-Well, sure, but doesn't DRG and WAR do the same thing? BRD gets a penalty for buffing others by lowering their own. MCN can only do it for 15 sec out of 90. DRG keeps theirs up 100% (ideally.) MNK can boost healing effectiveness for the party. NIN can boost damage for the party for a time, as well with Trick Attack.

"BRD and MCN can always attack and don't have to stop moving."
-Neither does my DRG... Yes, I know I'm limited to melee range, but having cleared T1-13 on my DRG, having to stay out of range during times when the boss was still targetable and attackable was EXTREMELY rare. With two different gap-closeres, my DRG never stopped hitting. Besides, my SMN is able to keep up an extremely high percentage of its damage while on the move, as well. Not to mention the fact that, guess what, BRD and MCN have to stop moving now, too, for WM and GB.

"MCN has so many other abilities to affect the fight."
-In theory, but not in practical application. Almost every boss in the game is immune to stun, silence, knockback, heavy, and bind. That's five of our abilities we can't use in a boss fight, and almost all of our utility. Sure, we get a defensive cooldown that nerfs the boss, but so does SMN...

"BRD and MCH can give tp/mp to other classes."
-So can NIN. On top of that, I was always expected to manage my own TP as DRG and MP as SMN. Yes, our BRD was there to sing for our healers, but since when does that increase our DPS? The times when our BRD played a TP song to help regen the TP of a DPS who died, it never increased my ability to deal damage as my DRG. Having to stop dealing damage to help a party member, sure, that sounds 100% logical. But when I'm not helping my healers, why am I still sitting at the bottom of the list, undisputed?


Yes, BRD and MCN are different from the other DPS, as they should be. I don't expect every job to play the same. I DO expect, however, that every role be able to perform on the same level. All healers should be able to keep their party alive. All tanks should be able to survive getting their face smashed in. All DPS should be able to keep up their share of the required DPS checks.

The days of MMO's being filled with large, open-world bosses with the ranged DPS standing up on a rock to height-mitigate damage, are gone. No longer do the melee have to constantly 'joust' to avoid constant spam of 360-degree AoEs. Why are we still treating ranged DPS like this? Having played both ranged, caster, and melee dps in T1-13, the argument that the backline has to move less is complete garbage. I had to move MORE as a BLM and SMN than I ever did as a DRG.

So, why are we okay with DRG and SMN parsing extremely high, while BRD and MCN parse so much lower?
Outside of giving MP to our beloved healers, why should we be allowed to attend raids?

[Ryaz]

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

Agree with everything you said. We suffer a LOT of penalties for being ranged, as does Bard, but it makes little sense as to why. My ninja does ridiculous damage, constantly keeps a 10% slashing debuff up and once a minutse throw up a 10% vulnerability debuff for 10 seconds. Oh, and I can give a party member TP regen without losing 15-20% of my DPS. Not to mention the new enmity control mechanics. Heck, my ninja is a better support class than my machinist. Top that off with the fact that machinist and bard have the lowest base weapon damage in the game (again, no clue as to why) and you really see just how bad both jobs are right now.

As for the excuse of dodging AoEs making melee tougher-- I have to dodge AoEs all the time in most fights. Heck, just finished Reactor for the first time yesterday and I lost so many casts from Gauss Barrel having to dodge AoEs, I just said screw it and took it off completely. Wasn't worth it.

All in all, machinist has some good, fun stuff, but it's all made weak for absolutely no reason other than "we're a ranged class".

[FantasyForever]

I posted this in another thread, and I feel the same way you do:

People need to go and upvote that original post so it gets more attention.