MCH completely useless

[Aerya]

Do we really have to wait for 3.1, in a few months, for the machinist to be playable? This job will be dead long before that with Alexander coming soon.

I wanted to play one of the new classes after getting lvl 60 with my PLD. Too much DRK and AST so I choose MCH wich seemed cool and original, but I already feel totally useless after a few dungeons (even if I'm still new to the job)...

Why would people play MCH? It's similar to a bard, more difficult than other classes, weaker than anything else, and useless in a party (no really useful skill). I really would like to take it to lvl 50 or 60 and even use it for Alexander, but it seems useless to do so and waste time for nothing... Maybe the "no MCH" in PF is the way to go to make SE react faster?

[Ephier]

Do we really have to wait for 3.1, in a few months, for the machinist to be playable? This job will be dead long before that with Alexander coming soon.

I wanted to play one of the new classes after getting lvl 60 with my PLD. Too much DRK and AST so I choose MCH wich seemed cool and original, but I already feel totally useless after a few dungeons (even if I'm still new to the job)...

Why would people play MCH? It's similar to a bard, more difficult than other classes, weaker than anything else, and useless in a party (no really useful skill). I really would like to take it to lvl 50 or 60 and even use it for Alexander, but it seems useless to do so and waste time for nothing... Maybe the "no MCH" in PF is the way to go to make SE react faster?

They fixed dragoon ins 2.45, so it is possible that we could get it before 3.1.

[SpiritMuse]

I'm kind of disappointed in machinist as well. I have it to 50 now and I do enjoy the style of it, but the damage is just very disappointing. As is the utility - it's supposed to be a debuffer job but the debuffs only last 10 seconds and have such long cooldowns that they're really only usable once per fight?

[Sylve]

I actually outdamage the vast majority of MCH in neverreap as a scholar... spamming a 170 potency broil. 170 potency. It's asinine.

White Mages stone is what. 210 potency?

So uhh, a 140 potency shot every 2.5 seconds combined with the Turrets 80 Potency Shot in the same timeframe, a combined 220 Potency ... Fails to outdps you spamming a potency 170 spell? Mathematically, this makes zero sense.

Not to mention Gauss Round for 200 potency every 20 seconds, Head Graze for 100 potency every 25, a 40 potency DoT ticking away the whole time, a flat 5% bonus to all damage dealt and the random occurrences of Slug and Clean Shot procs along with the forced procs while ALSO using RS, BfB, Hawk's Eye, Reassemble, Rapid Fire and Wildfire ....

Starting to lean more into the "They have no idea WTF they're doing as a Machinist".

[RiceisNice]

...

Then you need to factor that machinist's weapon damage stats are in the low values similar to bard; a white mage in cleric stance has better scaling than this with a 170 potency.

Gauss Barrel is a dps loss if you keep it beyond the intial burst. Using round/ricochet off cooldown assumes that you're keeping it on for the entire fight.

Half those buffs aren't exclusive to machinist, nor would any decent one would use it to buff split shot exclusively if that is what you're getting at.

The problem I see is with machinist (aside from me lagging behind compared to other dps classes) is that I always find myself busting my ass (aligning cooldowns, pre pull burst, pots, all of that) just to get under them in dps, and some of our burst straight up does't apply unless you make adjustments (meaning lower it's overall damage) because some vulnerability phases simply do not last long enough for wildfire (neverreap's first boss and bismarack EX come to mind). I never find myself using gauss barrel outside of burst or AoE because the auto attack loss isn't made up with the increased damage or the two skills. And the only time I do use it again after the initial burst is either in combination with my cooldowns (which I'm sure is a bug with rapid fire making GB instant cast), or when there is signifcant downtime where I can't attack the boss...and use it for burst.

[Ephier]

Gauss Barrel is a dps loss if you keep it beyond the intial burst. Using round/ricochet off cooldown assumes that you're keeping it on for the entire fight..

Not quite. MCN can stance dance with rapid fire, and it is indeed an increase to swap gauss barrel on to use those 2 cooldowns then take it off. Also in AoE applications, gauss barrel is definitely more damage.

[RiceisNice]

Not quite. MCN can stance dance with rapid fire, and it is indeed an increase to swap gauss barrel on to use those 2 cooldowns then take it off. Also in AoE applications, gauss barrel is definitely more damage.

But that's using GB for burst... If you try to use it any other time outside of bursting it's just not worth it. We're talking a 90s cooldown on using those two abilties (which happen to allign with b4b, HE and WF), and not much else after that. And even then, I'm pretty sure rapid fire making GB instant is still a bug since it's not a weapon skill.

[Sylve]

Words

The ONLY thing you lose from Gauss Barrel is auto attack.
When you take off GB, you lose access to an entire 200 potency shot which also gains 20% damage from the Barrel, you lose damage on Lead Shot and pointlessly sacrifice 20% bonus damage on Slug and Clean since those are instant under Ammo effects.

Losing 185 damage (at 57 with a HQ54 gun because there is all of one 56 NQ gun on the MBs right now) per 2~ seconds is made up in spades by the boost to damage literally everything else gets, including Wildfire.

Trying to dance back and forth with Gauss Barrel causes you to lose a flat 2 shots due to the 3 second cast as well as any Autos you would have fired just doesn't make sense to me.
In a fight with extended periods of running, I can see dropping Gauss Barrel as a viable tactic to keep DPS up, but i cannot see how wasting 3 seconds every 20 seconds to put on GB for a Gauss Round is more DPS than simply staying in GB until movement gives you reason to take it off.

Also, yes I'm fully aware than the MCH/BRD weapons are a flat -6 compared to like level weapons for all other Jobs including tanks.

PS: Don't go trying to throw those Reddit parses around as "proof", as i pointed out last time, the test was flawed in that he only tested once per mode and for differing duration's.

[Typhoria]

If WM/GB didn't disable autos it would be fine. The cast timer is more than enough to limit mobility for the damage tradeoff. Not like either class is close to mnk/drg/blm damage wise for this to be an overpowered buff. Remove the cast timer but add a cool down on the stance so that we can trade mobility for damage at a whim, but still dealing with consequences if we change stance at a wrong time.

[Ephier]

words

'-'. I assume you do not know the ins and outs of MCN dps. Let me enlighten you. Under the effect of rapid fire, gauss barrel is instant, there is no 3 second cast. So, while you are mid fight, you line up b4b, hawkeye, rapid fire, and wild fire. While the rapid fire is up you can go in to use gauss barrel for ricochet and gauss round, use the procs you gain from rapid fire, then drop it back off for 90s until the next rapid fire. This is not an argument, it is proven already gauss barrel for an entire fight is a dps loss, no gauss barrel at all is a dps loss. The optimal way to play MCN right now is rapid fire stance dancing.

http://puu.sh/iDkEm/8cf80d3afa.jpg
(using 160 for crit/det, dont need the acc from i180.)
Yours truly, the short lala MCN.